Re: [CR]Re:Merckx, Masi, DeRosa

(Example: Production Builders:Peugeot:PY-10)

Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 18:53:00 -0800
From: "Brian Baylis" <>
To: Richard M Sachs <>
Subject: Re: [CR]Re:Merckx, Masi, DeRosa
References: <>


DUDE! You know I want to see THOSE! I hope there are some detail shots. I wonder if there is a date stamped on the steerer like I've seen on every Italian GC I've seen thus far that was Italian made. The earliest GC I've seen personally, happens to belong to Ken Denny and is dated "8, 69". It has fluted caps. The latest date I've seen is the GC Chuck has dated "6, 73". Inspection inside the headtube of the bike you cite might tell us something also, as Specials were fitted with a headbadge which requires holes for the rivits. I would expect also that the lugs were DuBois and it has oval chainstays and the Brev. Masi decal on the chainstays. Like I said, I'm open to the possibility; but before I roll over I would have to see a lot of details. Hopefully the owner will indulge us? It would be a first for me.

One reason I'm not ready to accept the documents and the word of the owner just yet is because just yesterday Peter Johnson told me a VERY funny story. He told me about a ride he went on recently where he was riding his 1970 Masi GC and some other rider rolled up along side him and began to chat with Peter. The other person, too was riding a Masi. As the conversation turned to the age of Peters' bike, the other person, upon hearing Peters' bike was a 1970, responded that his Masi was built in 1957! Really? As Peter looked down at the bike the first thing he noticed was the IC fork crown cast with the Masi crest in it. His eyes rolled back in his head until they bumped into his brain. Obviously this person is mistaken. That crown does not appear until the late 70's at the very earliest. Sometimes people don't know exactly what they have. Most want to believe what they have is something special. Your frined may have just that; I don't know. It may be special because it would be the first of its' kind that I've ever seen or heard of. THAT is special. It may be a special that was decaled as a GC from the factory, VERY special also. No doubt there is an explaination for it, and I for one would be very curious to know for sure. I have really learned a lot about Masis in the past 7 or 8 years. I'm open for more. Do you suppose your friend might be willing to allow us to inspect it at close range so we can be sure? Many consider me somewhat an authority on Masis, I want to know as much as possible, and I want all of it to be factual and true. Personally, I would be very grateful to your friend.

Brian Baylis La Mesa, CA

> snipped from below:
> "...but until I see an undisputable example
> of each I have to disagree with you..."
> oh brian, you're such a big boo.
> i have a stack of photos showing a 1970 italian gc
> with the same 'cool' decals as on my three1971 italian gc's
> and the 1970 has flat seatstay caps. these are color
> prints given to me by the original buyer/owner along
> with a xerox of his original invoice from the sale
> consumated at the Vigorelli. the owner came here for
> a visit about 7 years ago and, upon return to his home,
> he sent me about 8 pics. i don't have a scanner, but i do
> have the prints.
> chester, ct
> On Tue, 04 Mar 2003 17:41:24 -0800 Brian Baylis <>
> writes:
> Richie,
> I've seen LOTS of Masi GC's and Specials but I've never seen a GC with
> flat stay caps or an Special with fluted ones that still had original
> paint and transfers on it. I've seen both as repaints with incorrect
> decals on a few occassions. The only possibility of either one would
> have to be during the transition between the Special and GC. There are a
> few other traits that are specific to one or the other that can also
> help classify each frame if it is no longer original. I'm open to the
> possibility of what you suggest; but until I see an undisputable example
> of each I have to disagree with you, will all due respect, of course.
> Anyone have an example of a genuine original Masi special with fluted
> stay caps or a genuine Gran Criterium with flat caps?? Like very much to
> see them. Until then, I'm sticking with what I know to be true so far.
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
> Masis comming out of my butt. Sure beats monkeys!