Re: [CR]Re: CR list; rules, topic range and controls.

(Example: Framebuilders:Brian Baylis)

From: Renaissance Cycles <>
To: <>, <>
References: <>
Subject: Re: [CR]Re: CR list; rules, topic range and controls.
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:07:14 +0200

Dale!........................This be your castle and run it as you like, hell if I'll have anyone invading mine to do as they like!...Not a chance!!!!!!!!!!!

Baron C...................And the gang!!
Renaissance cycles,
Eindhoven Holland.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 3:17 AM
Subject: [CR]Re: CR list; rules, topic range and controls.

> I have been waiting a few days to form my thoughts and be concise in my
> response to the recent discussions about what are appropriate topics for this list,
> who decides and who, in fact, owns the list.
> Let me explain my view of all this..
> Things are not evolutionary here on the CR list. I think the folks who have
> been on board since the beginning will support that statement. The goal and
> purpose of the list has been steady. The CR time-frame has been relatively
> consistent and the "rules" have been included in the Welcome message sent to every
> single new member since the list went up. (Some folks, maybe many, did not take
> the time to read the rules, but they have been there.)
> The CR list was very different, and still is, from most other web based
> forums. That was purposeful and based upon a certain logic.
> One of the very first premises was that this list would not be a "chat list".
> Stream-of-consciousness messages, typed out as they occur in the author's
> mind, were not solicited. What was desired was meaty, useful information sharing.
> Crisp, minimal mail. Mail that meant something, each post having content. In
> the beginning, and even more so now, it was seen as undesirable to have a
> great volume of e-mail.
> In addition, other high standards were set for the CR list in civility and
> personal responsibility. Members were supposed to deport themselves with
> politeness in dealing with other members, on and off list. Members were required to
> use their name and town and not to hide behind anonymous nick names. This was
> to be a true person-to-person environment.
> I thought it was clear (perhaps not enough) that this was my list, I created
> it did and do all the grub work. It is as if I invited you all to my garage to
> talk about old bikes. I am the host and it is my garage. As long as members
> behave in an appropriate manner (to be decided by the host) you are welcome and
> I will extend all my hospitality. If a guest is unable to abide by the house
> rules, they are reminded. If that guest realizes they had gone astray, is
> reasonable and cooperative, all is well, no permanent harm done. If that guest
> flares up at the reminder, calls the host a horse's ass and says "I can do any
> damn thing I want", they will be asked to leave...
> As the list grew from 15 or 20 people to 700 or so folks, it became
> increasingly difficult to maintain a cap on the mail volume. Topic "wander" was
> rampant, people argued with me and others and attacked one another. Things went from
> bad to worse. I was becoming depressed. At a certain crucial point, maybe 3 -4
> years ago, I decided this was not how I wanted to spend my spare(?) time and
> I dumped the list, canceled it, finito.
> After a few weeks or a month, all of us who had become such friends in the CR
> list started it over again. We had missed it. But I had learned a lesson, lax
> administration of the basics would not again be tolerated.
> Despite the rules and necessity to maintain the concept, I have tried to be
> flexible. I have not jumped on off-topic posters unless a tangent thread
> threatens.. Even then I have asked, always off-list, that the aberrant behavior be
> curtailed. If the posters involved are cool with that and cooperate with my
> request, no problem. If the poster gives me a "ration of s__t", they are booted
> off the list.
> I get requests from every direction to expand the topic range, include their
> favorite cycling area, a new variant. But, in reality, from a pragmatic point
> of view, the topics should be tightened, reduced in breadth, not expanded! You
> all know that the sheer volume of e-mail is still a huge problem with this
> list. So it will remain as is...
> Recently I have had a few nettling zingers thrown my way; for instance,
> statements that I cater to & allow off topic posts from certain well known and
> in-gang folk. This irritates me as I have sent warning messages to every single
> "famous" person on this list! At one time or the other, I have had every
> "luminary" po'ed at me! Yet I hear this favoritism crap. As you can see, that irks
> me!
> Just to be absolutely clear, I "talk to" folks about being on or off topic,
> off-list. I do not embarrass them nor force a "public" confrontation. No one,
> except a few trusted CR members who I occasionally ask to be my witnesses,
> knows who is contacted by me for "discipline." I spend a helluva lot of time
> asking folks to stay on topic or to follow the rules, and no one is treated
> differently. For anyone to say that I am preferential is for them to speak without
> any supportive information.
> Finally, the ownership issue.
> I think the Internet has fostered a sort of communal-think in regard to these
> forums. I know nothing of that. All I know is that I thought of the CR list,
> developed it, spend inordinate amount of timing screwing around with it, with
> little or no personal benefit except that I like it. I have absolute control
> over whether it continues or ceases to exist. I cannot understand how someone
> else could assume "ownership" in something like the CR list in which they have
> no active role or responsibility for, save writing a message to it when they
> wish.
> The CR list is a reflection of my personal value code and is lovingly offered
> to be shared with friends and I feel lucky to have you here with me. In
> short, like it or not, I am the darn owner! If you somehow object to my role, you
> too can own an e-mail list tomorrow! All it takes is imagination and a lot of
> hard work.
> Meanwhile, welcome to my garage. We are talking about old bikes up until 1983
> or so. Here are the <A
> HREF="">CR list rules.</A>
> My deep thanks to all the very wonderful friends I have made here on the CR
> list and I hope we can continue exploring and discovering these wonderful old
> bikes together.
> Thanks,
> Dale
> Dale Brown
> Greensboro, North Carolina
> <A HREF=""></A>