Re: [CR]re: colnago on ebay


Example: Bike Shops:R.E.W. Reynolds
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:29:30 -0700
From: "Brian Baylis" <rocklube@adnc.com>
To: Patrick@aardvark-pro.com
Subject: Re: [CR]re: colnago on ebay
References: <00e301c330fd$5d862f40$0400005a@DaveP>
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

Dave,

I'll address that question later. Got work to do now. I can explain the situation.

Brian Baylis La Mesa, CA


>
> Is it a given the Ernesto was using a subcontract system in the late 60's
> and early 70s? Or is this just an assumption? I have what is believed to
> be a '72 or '73 Molteni orange Colnago and these early frames have excellent
> workmanship - the lugs are filed thin, the seatstay caps are delicate and
> precise. From '76 on, I know the workmanship suffered a great deal on
> Colnagos, indicating that there were "too many cooks in the kitchen", so to
> speak. But the quality of workmanship on the early Colnagos seems to be
> very consistent and very good, which may tend to run counter to assumption
> of subcontracting during that era. Am I being totally unrealistic to wonder
> if framebuilding was kept within Ernesto's gaze, under one roof? Which also
> begs the question: how long, if ever, did Ernesto actually hang on to the
> torch once he decided to start his company?
>
> Dave Patrick
> Chelsea, Michigan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
> [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of Brian Baylis
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 11:45 AM
> To: C. Andrews
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]re: colnago on ebay
>
> Charles,
>
> No question about it. My '70 has the slimmer style. The bottom of the
> stem is actually concave (the way I like to make them). Clearly there
> were variations. Not hard to believe considering the subcontractor
> system in use at the time.
>
> This is great. We've got everyone checking out their Colnagos. In the
> process we are learning more about these bikes. One thing is clear,
> there are variations within any given year. I can hardley wait until we
> get together for the Joe Bell Colnago ride here later this year. It will
> allow us to compare in the flesh.
>
> Brian Baylis
> >
> > We differ here. My original-finish 1969/70 Super--which you
> > have seen--has the fluffy flower, as do my two '72-ish
> > Supers. In my experience the bigger, fluffier flower was
> > standard on the dt lug on all Supers until 1976 or so.
> > Sometime in there the cutout-shape changed to the smaller
> > flower, with a slightly different profile. Matt Gorsky's
> > 1977 green Super has this smaller flower with the long-point
> > lugs.
> >
> > Most of the time the smaller flower is seen with the fork
> > crown that has *Colnago* stamped in it, around a smaller
> > flower stamping similar to, but not the same as, the one on
> > the dt. The frame on ebay is different, and I still think
> > what happened was it was just assembled that way...the older
> > crowns were probably still around..
> >
> > I'm confused by what you said below...I can't believe a 1970
> > Super would have the smaller cutout on the dt lug. Every
> > early 70s Super I've ever seen had the bigger, fluffier
> > cutout. Yes, the profile is slightly different (the bottom
> > of the flower on the very early frames is flatter than on
> > slightly later frames), but the overall *size* of the cutout
> > is distinctly larger than what you see on the ebay frame.
> >
> > I suppose I should take some pics to clarify this.
> >
> > Charles Andrews
> > SoCal
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brian Baylis" <rocklube@adnc.com>
> > To: "C. Andrews" <chasds@mindspring.com>
> > Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 7:54 AM
> > Subject: Re: [CR]re: colnago on ebay
> >
> > > Charles,
> > >
> > > I just looked at my '70 anf my '74 for lug gutout shape.
> > The early bike
> > > has the "slimmer" club with the flat bottom to the stem.
> > The '74 has the
> > > "puffy" club with the rounded bottom. I conclude that when
> > the stopped
> > > doing 3 lug cutouts in '73 they changed to the puffy style
> > cutout in the
> > > bottom headlug only. I'm still in favor of late '74 on
> > this one only on
> > > account of the crown. Does anyone have what is positively
> > a '75 with
> > > original paint and decals? My guess there: crown with club
> > and "Colnago"
> > > on top, small oval in BB shell, fork tang is a crapshoot
> > but I say a
> > > small club in most. Anyone? There is a funny decal "snafu"
> > that appears
> > > on frames from about 1973 we can talk about later.
> > >
> > > Brian Baylis
> > > La Mesa, CA
> > > >
> > > > Brian Baylis wrote, in part:
> > > >
> > > > "Perhaps the
> > > > frame is later in '74 as opposed to earlier. I wouldn't
> > be
> > > > surprised if
> > > > the '75's all had the oval. I'm still in favor of '74."
> > > >
> > > > I think this frame is later than that, for one reason:
> > the
> > > > flower cut-out on the dt lug is smaller, less fluffy
> > shape
> > > > commonly seen around 1977 or 1978. Also, note that the
> > > > flower stamp on the *fork* IS the fluffier shape. This
> > > > suggests any number of things. The fork may be a
> > > > replacement...but I think it's more likely that when
> > this
> > > > frame was built, forks with both varieties of crown were
> > > > available, and the frame was simply assembled with the
> > > > earlier fork-crown.
> > > >
> > > > Although the picture is fuzzy, there's no doubt in my
> > mind
> > > > that the flower cut-out in the dt lug is the later
> > style.
> > > > There was a period of a couple of years in the late 70s
> > when
> > > > Colnagos were made with the older long-point lugs, but
> > the
> > > > later, smaller, cutout. This transition seems to have
> > > > ended by 1981 or so, when the medium-point lugs were
> > > > standard, and the cutout itself may have gotten even
> > > > smaller. But I haven't checked that latter fact, I'm
> > > > relying on memory.
> > > >
> > > > Charles "Colnago nut" Andrews
> > > > SoCal