RE: [CR]Re:NOS Claud on eBay with bi-laminate lugs


Example: Framebuilders:Alberto Masi
From: "Jim Cunningham" <cyclartist@cox.net>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: RE: [CR]Re:NOS Claud on eBay with bi-laminate lugs
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 03:04:59 -0700
In-Reply-To: <BB4C9768.18EEE%hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk>


Hilary,

Perhaps Bi-laminate is not the correct term. The bottom bracket shell is clearly not a casting or pressed lug. It is obviously made of five separate pieces of tubing that have been filet brazed together. If not bi-laminate, what do you call that?

So, the seat stay attachment does not fit with the 1951 catalog. Catalogs are often incomplete and do not take specials into account. Besides, the estate says the frame was purchased in 1952.

The Continental lugs look like this: http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British/claud_butler_conti_lugs.htm I have two other frames in hand with this pattern. The frame on Ebay has lugs of an entirely different pattern. http://www.cyclart.com/photos/Inventory/FRV-7353.jpg

The frame currently on Ebay IS lugged except the BB as per amended listing description. With no evidence to the contrary, I'm still calling the bottom bracket assembly bi-laminate.

The Continental frames in my possession DO clearly have the filet at all tube intersections. Although I can't prove it without cutting them up, it seems they may be entirely bi-laminate.

Thanks for your opinion.

Jim Cunningham

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Hilary Stone Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 12:28 PM To: OROBOYZ@aol.com; otterwazoo@yahoo.com; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Re:NOS Claud on eBay with bi-laminate lugs

This frame is not bi-laminated - it is lugged - the lugs do not appear in the 1951 catalogue but are virtually identical to the 'Continental' lugs featured in the 1949 catalogue. The rear ends are the correct type for a C-B path model until 1953 when they became reinforced. The 1949 catalogue describes it as the 'World Championship Path model no 24:'. The seatstay top attachment also does not fit in with the 1951 date - the catalogue is adamant that the wrapped over seatstay attachment is the only type used on the path models. I do not have a 1950 catalogue, I am not sure one was ever produced - though the '51 cat is very clear about the wrapped over seatstay tops being first introduced on the path models and introduced prior to '51.

Hilary Stone, Bristol, England
> In a message dated 7/29/2003 11:09:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> otterwazoo@yahoo.com writes:
>
> <<
> Claud Butler 54cm 1952 PathRacer NOS
>
> Item number: 2185740994 >>
>
> http://ebay.com/<blah>
>
> I guess I still don't understand what bi-laminate lugs are because these look
> like normal lugs (albeit way cool semi-fancy normal!) I thought bi-laminate
> meant kind of "one lug on top of another.."
> Can someone instruct me, using this frame as an example, what bi-laminate is?
>
> Thanks
>
> Dale Brown
> Greensboro, North Carolina