Claud's Continental pattern lugs changed over the years - the ones Jim illustrates are from the 1939 catalogue; by 1949 they were a completely different beast and are illustrated quite clearly in the '49 catalogue. How is the bottom bracket obviously made from five separate pieces of tubing? Has Jim had the bottom bracket set out? Certainly C-B made bilaminated CL bottom brackets - the Road-Path model I have have put up for sale to CR members has just such an item. Incidentally one query that was put to me in a private email concerned the use of the word Path in a model title. The writer thought that this implied a frame with mudguard eyes and drilled for brakes - in Britain this was not the case, the word path was totally synonomous with the word track. Hence a path model model was a track model which is what Jim's frame is. Frames with mudguard eyes and drilled for brakes were known as Road-Path models by practically every British builder. The concave seat stay caps of Jim's frame are definitely an earlier feature - the catalogues make that plain. CB used a number of transfer styles - different models were fitted with different transfers - the 1949 catalogue shows two types clearly, the large block letters and the larger version of the script - I suspect which was fitted on some days may have been down to what the transfer fitter had to hand. The 1951 catalogue shows the smaller script type as well as the other two designs. As Mick Butler says the frame number should sort out the year of build - 1949 frames simply start with a 9. Of course frames may have been sold a year or two later. But the catalogues are exceptionally clear about the path ends fitted 1949, 1951 and 1952 they are described as being made from '9g steel plate'; in 1953 they add 'with 14g reinforcing plates' and both types are illustrated. It must be remembered that the cast lugs used in this period looked very much like bilaminated construction with a large fillet unless they were very heavily filed down.
Hilary Stone, Bristol, England
> Hilary,
>
> Perhaps Bi-laminate is not the correct term. The bottom bracket shell
> is clearly not a casting or pressed lug. It is obviously made of five
> separate pieces of tubing that have been filet brazed together. If not
> bi-laminate, what do you call that?
>
> So, the seat stay attachment does not fit with the 1951 catalog.
> Catalogs are often incomplete and do not take specials into account.
> Besides, the estate says the frame was purchased in 1952.
>
> The Continental lugs look like this:
> http://www.classicrendezvous.com/
> I have two other frames in hand with this pattern. The frame on Ebay has
> lugs of an entirely different pattern.
> http://www.cyclart.com/
>
> The frame currently on Ebay IS lugged except the BB as per amended
> listing description. With no evidence to the contrary, I'm still
> calling the bottom bracket assembly bi-laminate.
>
> The Continental frames in my possession DO clearly have the filet at all
> tube intersections. Although I can't prove it without cutting them up,
> it seems they may be entirely bi-laminate.
>
> Thanks for your opinion.
>
> Jim Cunningham
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
> [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Hilary
> Stone
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 12:28 PM
> To: OROBOYZ@aol.com; otterwazoo@yahoo.com;
> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re:NOS Claud on eBay with bi-laminate lugs
>
> This frame is not bi-laminated - it is lugged - the lugs do not appear
> in
> the 1951 catalogue but are virtually identical to the 'Continental' lugs
> featured in the 1949 catalogue. The rear ends are the correct type for a
> C-B
> path model until 1953 when they became reinforced. The 1949 catalogue
> describes it as the 'World Championship Path model no 24:'. The seatstay
> top
> attachment also does not fit in with the 1951 date - the catalogue is
> adamant that the wrapped over seatstay attachment is the only type used
> on
> the path models. I do not have a 1950 catalogue, I am not sure one was
> ever
> produced - though the '51 cat is very clear about the wrapped over
> seatstay
> tops being first introduced on the path models and introduced prior to
> '51.
>
> Hilary Stone, Bristol, England
>
>> In a message dated 7/29/2003 11:09:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>> otterwazoo@yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> <<
>> Claud Butler 54cm 1952 PathRacer NOS
>>
>> Item number: 2185740994 >>
>>
>> http://ebay.com/
>>
>> I guess I still don't understand what bi-laminate lugs are because
> these look
>> like normal lugs (albeit way cool semi-fancy normal!) I thought
> bi-laminate
>> meant kind of "one lug on top of another.."
>> Can someone instruct me, using this frame as an example, what
> bi-laminate is?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Dale Brown
>> Greensboro, North Carolina