Re: [CR]Elementary Control-Theory Mistake in Jobst's article on Shimmy

(Example: Framebuilders:Pino Morroni)

From: <Bikerdaver@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 19:41:53 EST
Subject: Re: [CR]Elementary Control-Theory Mistake in Jobst's article on Shimmy
To: RDF1249@aol.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, gillies@cs.ubc.ca


Ok- I guess I get to give my two cents on the matter of "shimmy". In all the cases, that I have encountered "shimmy" since riding lightweights for the past thirty plus years, it has revolved around some part of the bike being "loose". Basically this means some part that is normally tightened--more often than not--like bearings, need proper tightening. Others have suggested the headset as the most obvious place to begin to look for shimmy. Bob, writes below that short wheelbased bikes tend to shimmy more often than longer wheelbased bikes--and that I have found to be true as well. But two other bearings that can become loose that will also contribute to "shimmy"--and please forgive me if someone has already mentioned this--are the BB axle and the wheel/hub bearings. This first one, shimmy caused by a loose BB axle, is perhaps so obvious to the rider that it may not be worth mentioning. However, I have found that with hub bearings being ever so slightly loose, will contribute GREATLY to nasty shimmy when going down hills at 30+mph. It gets worst the faster you go, and if you ever want to get the p_ _p scared out of you---and actually I don't reccommend this--try loosening your hub bearings and test this out yourself. Just be advised, that having read this email, you have agreed to my disclaimer of just assuming it's a valid test, and will hold me harmless just in case you are the "Doubting Thomas" type. Cheers dave anderson cut bank mt

In a message dated 1/16/2004 2:42:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, RDF1249@aol.com writes: Too much engineering, not enough practical experience. Overtightening is the way to waste a perfectly good headset! You will preload the bearings and then the first added load (from a bump in the road) will Brinnell the bearings (dent the races). Now you have an indexing headset, making steering nearly impossible. This happens all too often when people try to adjust a headset properly, much less overtighten it. The best way to adjust a headset is from loose to not loose, rather than from tight to not tight. A precision headset like Campy that is installed accurately will still have some preload when adjusted from tight to not tight. You just can't feel it because it is so smooth.

I don't believe that the adjustment of the headset is key to shimmy. It is as Brandt says, a product of the entire system, you and the bike. I do believe that a bike with less trail (less than, say, 50mm) will shimmy easier than a bike with more trail. It makes a squirrelier handling bike (hence my comments on my old Raleigh International that started this thread) which causes you to not only overcorrect but to grip the bars tighter in an attempt to control the shimmy, thereby propagating it. We have deraked the forks on a number of Internationals ( and Treks, and other bikes) over the years to minimize their shimmy.

A load on the rear of the bike doesn't help either. In the case of my International, I had it heavily loaded on an old Karrimor rack which had no triangulation to make it rigid, which allowed the load on the rear to be a tail wagging the dog.

If you didn't pick this up somewhere else in this thread, the ways to overcome shimmy if you encounter it are first to relax your grip. The tighter you grip the more it shimmies. Especially if it is cold outside and your arms are very tense. Then to touch your knee to the top tube. This damps out the spring (remember it is you and the bike) and stops the shimmy.

Bob Freeman
Seattle