Re: [CR] PayPal and German eBay Purchases - Postlog

Example: Humor

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 10:09:59 EST
Subject: Re: [CR] PayPal and German eBay Purchases - Postlog

Nick (and others), you may want to hit your delete key now - sorry about this, but it gets to the heart of our hobby, which eBay is now intricately entwined with, whether we like it or not. Personally, I have very mixed feelings about eBay right now, but that's another story....

Executive summary for those of you that don't want to pore over this whole long-winded post: 99% of all eBay sellers are honest, sincere people, but you have to have reasonable expectations when working in any International Trading environment, especially eBay. Shipping to the US from many other countries takes a lot of time these days.

Well, this is pretty much as I expected, although Jerry's parts arrived much SOONER than I would have expected them to. Folks, at the risk of becoming tedious, I will repeat: I have never failed to receive anything from an eBay seller in Germany, or anywhere else on the planet, after 1000+ purchases over six or seven years. I've had three non-payers now, but no failures to deliver on the selling side worldwide from about twenty different countries, including Russia, Eastern Europe, Asia, Western Europe, Scandinavia, all of the UK, Canada, OZ, the USA, Puerto Rico, etc, etc. eBay is an amazing world marketplace IMO, warts and all.

In the current, post-9/11 environment, with incoming flights to the US getting summarily cancelled, and all sorts of Politically-motivated retaliatory shenanigans being perpetrated by our Government here in the US, it often takes 1 - 3 months to receive a shipment (even if it's via air) from Germany. No one likes that; it's just a fact. I think this is why Carsten is now wanting to use only Fed-X Express at 28 bucks a pop - it gets there fast, and people don't get unhappy with him as a seller (except perhaps over the shipping costs!).

Some of the German sellers offer a cafeteria-style shipping plan in their initial contact with the buyers - three or four different options, priced out for your specific item's shipped weight, including estimates of shipping time for each option. As a nerd Engineer / number cruncher, I love that! That has only happened for me with German sellers.

You can't blame a seller for the Global mail system, which is something he cannot control - it's just not reasonable. We live in an incredibly tense global environment right now, where unfortunately a lot of trust has gone out the window. This has created many, many hassles worldwide, much to the glee of the very small group of terrorists that have fomented this situation. Don't let them win.

eBay is all about risk and trust. 99% of the folks on eBay are 100% honest, just like the rest of the world in my opinion. Your task is to avoid the other 1%. The feedback system, flawed though it may be, has, if you do enough digging, everything that you need to determine whether or not you can trust any given seller. In our little niche of vintage lightweight bicycles, the group of active sellers (and even active buyers) is actually quite small, and therefore it is in general even easier to spot the crooks. There just aren't that many.

End of rant.

Thank you, and have a pleasant tomorrow.

Greg "eBay nerd" Parker Ann Arbor Michigan

> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 20:50:21 -0600
> From: "jerrymoos" <>
> To: <>
> Subject: Re: [CR]PayPal and German eBay Purchases - Postlog
> Message-ID: <024401c3ea00$77b7a710$efddfea9@mooshome>
> References:
> <><
> <031801c3e816$55f3a020$efddfea9@mooshome>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Precedence: list
> Message: 1
> Well, the week after having received a refund from PayPal on my complaint of
> nondelivery of several Zeus items from Klaus Jeworowski, aka
> Charlys-Auktonien, and 6 weeks and a day after the auction ended, the items
> actually showed up. Everything is as advertised, just about a month too
> late. I can't find any legible marking on the parcel to confirm or refute
> his claim to have shipped it Dec 29 (a full week after I paid for it by the
> way). So if anyone is considering buying from him, it is only fair to point
> out that he did ship the items in this case.
> However, if you don't pay for FedEx or something similar and a German seller
> ships Deutsche Post as Klaus did, expect to wait 5 or 6 weeks for delivery
> to US. This puts you beyond the deadline to file a PayPal complaint. And
> in Klaus' case, if you don't insure the parcel at a large additional charge,
> expect him to disavow all responsibility, although evidently that didn't
> wash with PayPal, which extracted a partial (almost complete) refund from
> him. You can ship insured FedEx, but the shippping can wind up being half
> the price of the goods or even more.
> Now that I have, against all odds, actually received the goods, I will of
> course refund the refund Paypal extracted from Klaus, as soon as it has been
> credited to my MasterCard account. I think I will leave Neutral feedback
> stating that the goods were as represented, but received 6 weeks after
> payment. He probably doesn't deserve Negative, but given his week delay in
> shipping and his "not my problem" attitude, he doesn't deserve Positive
> either. Hopefully PayPal and I got his attention in regard to his
> responsibility for shipments insured or not.
> Hope this experience helps those considering purchases on German eBay weigh
> the benefits against the risks.
> Regards,
> Jerry Moos
> Houston, TX
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jerrymoos" <>
> To: <>; "WD Baseley" <>
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [CR]PayPal and German eBay Purchases
> >I waited 29 days to see if the mail was just slow, then filed the
> complaint
> >just before the deadline. A week later the parts still hadn't arrrived,
> but
> >I was informed that my money had been refunded, or at least most of it..
> 30
> >days plus one week is a bit over 5 weeks.
> >
> >Considering the very long shipping from Europe, PayPal should allow more
> >time to file a complaint. If one gives the seller the benefit of the
> doubt
> >and waits 5 or 6 weeks before filing a complaint, then it will be too late
> >to file with PayPal. I don't expect either of my purchases will ever
> >arrive, but there may be cases where one files a complaint at the
> deadline,
> >then the goods eventually arrive. In the unlikely event that occurs for
> me
> >I will of course refund the refund.
> >
> >This deadline puts buyers in a predicament. When one has waited 29 days
> >with no delivery, one must decide whether to trust the seller or file a
> >PayPal complaint. In the case of these two sellers, it was my first
> >purchase from each of them, and one had been the source of many past
> >complaints from other buyers, so filing the complaints was a no brainer.
> By
> >complete contrast, it has now been about 30 days waiting on an order from
> >Renaissance Cycles, but I would never dream of filing a compalint. The
> >difference is that, not only is BC a list member, but his reputation is
> >impeccable. I've probably made a dozen purchases from him, often for $500
> >or more each, and never been anything other than delighted. He also
> >reassures buyers through excellent communications. He cautions US buyers
> >that shipping can take 3 to 4 weeks, and if there is a long delay, he
> >responds to emails.
> >
> >Shipping from Holland has been slow for a couple of years. Early last
> year
> >BC advised me that US Customs seemed to be especially scritinizing parcels
> >from Holland to retaliate for what the US viewed as a lack of cooperation
> by
> >the Dutch authorities in suppressing the international drug trade. Later,
> >that blew over and deliveries from Holland improved, but now Holland and
> >Germany are again experiencing long delays, evidently related to terrorist
> >concerns. Oddly, parcels from UK and Denmark still arrive promptly.
> Maybe
> >US Customs believes that terrorist activity is more prevalent in some
> >European nations than in others, or maybe it's just that parcels from
> >different countries enter the US at different points.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Jerry Moos
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "WD Baseley" <>
> >To: <>
> >Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 6:36 AM
> >Subject: Re: [CR]PayPal and German eBay Purchases
> >
> >
> >>At 09:52 PM 1/30/2004 -0600, jerrymoos ushered forth:
> >>>Well, the eBay saga continues. After the previously posted problems
> with
> >>>Cyclo_Network, I also failed to receive any goods 5 weeks after paying
> >>>another German seller, charley's-auktionen. The seller claimed no
> >>>responsibility because I had not paid for insured shipping, and stated
> he
> >>>had shipped on Dec29, but offered no proof. I again filed eBay and
> >PayPal
> >>>complaints just before the 30 day PayPal deadline. I received notice
> >today
> >>>that PayPal had determined the seller was at fault and had obtained a
> >refund
> >>>of $153 of the $160 price.
> >>
> >>How did you manage to file a complaint within 30 days -and- wait 5 weeks
> >>for shipping? You must have a Tarsus hiding in there amongst the bike
> >bits ;-)
> >>
> >>I have made purchases from Charlys Auktionen in the past, and never had
> a
> >>problem with delivery -- although shipping was always slow. With
> certain
> >>overseas sellers I am accustomed to waiting weeks and weeks for items to
> >>arrive, and Charlys is one of them.
> >>
> >>I wonder how much of the recent problem has to do with greater scrutiny
> of
> >>packages arriving in the US from overseas. If that is a factor I also
> >>wonder if packages from certain countries are scrutinized more, and/or
> if
> >>the manner of packaging and the completeness of identification by the
> >>shipper might play a role.
> >>
> >>rgds,
> >>Dave Baseley, back into the single digit temperatures in Berks County PA