Re: [CR]Jacques Anquetil frame..


Example: Production Builders:Tonard

From: "reelfishin" <reelfishin@netzero.net>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
References: <000a01c3eb2a$72b368a0$13127ad5@oemcomputer>
Subject: Re: [CR]Jacques Anquetil frame..
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 23:44:30 -0500


I took a real good look at the J.A. frame today, I can find no sign of any sort of serial numbers? The only stamping I can find is on the right hand upper side of the bottom bracket shell (just behind the sprockets), it has an oval with the letters EDA in it. I looked through most all of the French bike pics in CR, and none have the same lug design as the J.A., as well as many of the British bikes as well and no match. Some other details are: -- The fork tips have a very extreme curve forward, (nearly 90 degrees) (not bent, as is the wheel and caliper align correctly, -- The bottom bracket width is 68 mm and uses an R.F.G. crank axle, -- The fork crown, which at first I thought was forged, has a very thick chrome cap which slides over a stamped crown, the fork dropouts say Huret but are made of stamped steel, the threaded portion of the steer tube looks like it was made round and then the flat side which locates the brake hanger, is simply punched flat, not filed or machined. The steer tube itself varies in thickness around the inside of the tube. -- The rear brake bridge and forward brace between the rear stays are both curved, as if an after thought to make clearance for a larger wheel, (with the curved brake bracket, it would be imposible to fit a set of 700c wheel due to the fact that the rim would be out of reach of even the longest reach caliper, - with a 27" rim, the pads are in their lowest posible position on the Mafac Racers). -- The seat stays where they intersect the seat tube curve inward at the top as if to wrap around the seat tube lug, if they were about 10 mm longer each they would meet. -- The headtube is rather short for a frame with a 57.5 cm seat tube (c-c), (155 mm). The top tube measures 58 cm, the downtube is 63.5 cm. -- rear spacing actuall measurement is 118 mm. -- The Solida crankset is the same as the one currently listed on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3659224779&category=56195 -- The pedals were Lyotard alloy, (with 14 mm threading), like the ones in: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3659142378&category=36138 -- The decals on the fork have the outline of a fish in the upper part or coat of arms portion of the decal, all decals are printed on foil, some gold and some chrome backed. -- The rear dropouts are stamped steel and have an unusuall hooked edge at the point of axle entry. -- The seat post measures 25mm in diameter.

Overall fit and finish of this bike is fairly poor at close inspection, the paint looks to be laqueur, as is it shows some crows footing, the decals are misaligned and the cable stops are just stamped out of sheetmetal and spotted on. It uses two types of cable stops, some are simple drilled cup shaped stops and some are the type that incorporates a casing guide hole. The frame is bright white with gold outlines. The rear brake cable stops are mounted on the right side of the top tube.

I guess that dating this frame will depend on either finding a match with a known history, or by figuring out when details of certain components changed. For instance, when did Simplex change from the round raised logo to the flat engraved wing pattern? As well as figuring out when Solida cranks like these were being made. I am leaning towards this probably being a non-shop sold bike, or an attempt by a larger manufacturer to sell a lower end bike outside of their normal dealer network. I weighed the frame and it comes in at 7.9 pounds bare. Probably straight gauge mild steel tubing. I was told by someone that Simplex date coded their derailleurs? I can't find any date codes on these. The shift levers on this one are both mounted on a clamp, (not like those on a U0-8 with one on the frame and the left on the clamp). The one I saw on eBay last month looked newer, and the owner had told me that the rims were steel and had no markings, he said they were quite narrow with tall sides. This description doesn't match any of the French steel rims I've seen here. Most all French bikes with steel rims used Rigida Chrolux rims with either smooth or serated sides.

For the most part, I guess this simply has gotten my attention since it's a brand of bike I've never run acrossed here before and the fact that I haven't been able to find any concrete info on these or even who sold them.

Thanks Again,
Joe McKishen
Vineland, NJ


----- Original Message -----
From: "Norris Lockley"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:22 AM
Subject: [CR]Jacques Anquetil frame..



>From the additional info you provided in your last post, it is obvious that your frame predates the ones I mentioned in my first reply ie the Gitane produced supermarket fodder?

My late 60s Anquetil frame list doesn't name a Tour de France model, but instead has the "Maillot Jaune" All Anquetil frames referring to the Tour and the yellow jersey appear to be sprayed in "Anquetil Violet"., while others are Riviera Blue, Brittany Green etc.

With your frame having he older pattern of gear boss on the D/T it is likely that the frame was made by whoever was sponsoring Anquetil at the time i.e either Helyett or Gitane, as it is unlikely that these two non-St Etienne based companies would permit a builder from St Etienne to use their sponsored rider's name. it could of course have been from a later period when Anquetil's star was on the wain.

I have a selction of models of Helyett and Gitane from that period and could check your frame's number against those I have, if you want to go to these lengths.

Contact me off-line if you prefer.

Norris Lockley