RE: [CR]Help! Please ID this frame if you can... (a bit long sorry)

Example: Framebuilders:Bernard Carré

From: "sam Lingo" <>
Subject: RE: [CR]Help! Please ID this frame if you can... (a bit long sorry)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:48:19 +0000

I to wish someone could run down and post a list of Claud Butler builder marks--that would score a big one for this hobby.

sam lingo

pleasanton tx

>Subject: [CR]Help! Please ID this frame if you can... (a bit long sorry)
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:44:12 EST
>Whatho everyone,
>Recent exchanges about keyword spamming / Colnago / Trialtir reminded me of
>an unknown track frame I've been stripping down ready for re-enamelling over
>the last two weeks.
>I also recall some recent chat about individual builders for one of the
>bigger specialist lightweight manufacturers (was it Holdsworth / Claud B?) who
>punched small marks under the chainstays, so as to be able to ID their frames for
>piece work payment...
>I bought this 22.5" C-T frameset at a cycle-jumble at Mildenhall some years
>ago, and it has lain idle in my shed since then.
>Somewhere along the line before I bought it some plonker did a respray
>(enamel straight onto metal) in bright yellow and affixed a complete set of Colnago
>decals to what is pretty obviously a fine example of British building. This
>frame has very clean brazing and finishing and is completely straight in all
>respects except for surface rusting (read on).
>Anyways, now I've got all the paint off and am down to the metal - I'd like
>to be able to ID the maker if possible - and then approach our friends at
>Lloyds for the correct transfers.
>- Nervex Lugs.
>- "A" on the left rear of the seat cluster - but probably a Nervex
>manufacturing mark?
>- Long-ish rear triangle - about an 1.5 inches between the tyre and the seat
>tube with an inflated sprint wheel mid-way in the rear drop-out.
>- No-name forged drop-outs front and rear and no mudguard eyes on any.
>- Brake drillings front and rear - and the rear bridge is curved and not
>- Frame number on underside of B/B shell is 'C2156' - but the last four of
>these digits of this have been overstamped onto another number which can't now
>be read. No numbers or marks on rear drop-outs.
>- Number on fork column is '08609' or '60980' depending on which way up you
>read it!
>- Wrapover stays which have been very nicely done in that they are fluted (as
>on the Holdworth Monsoon and Zepher that Hilary Stone sold on e-bay recently)
>but the builder has continued the fluting over the wrapover by in-filling
>with blazing and then filing it to meet the profile on either side.
>- There is a small roughly v-shaped indentation underneath the left side
>chainstay immediately adjacent to the B/B shell.
>No rivet holes for headbadge - so presumably not a Holdsworth then...
>- I would say the frame has the look of pre-1970s (when I started cycling)
>and there is evidence of surface corrosion and pitting all over it, plus surface
>'snail trails' of rust which added together give it the general patina of an
>old but high-quality frame.
>- It takes a 27.2mm seat pin and is very light when compared to my other (but
>larger) 531DB frames.
>Not really much to go on I know - the fluted wrapover configuration is the
>stand-out perhaps, but if anyone has any ideas I'd be v.grateful. Equally, if
>anyone is so inclined to help I can take some digipix and send them.
>Ian Briggs - Luton (mild & cloudly - spots of rain now and then) UK