Hi All (and Brian),
I was wondering, in more detail, what defines an "art builder" or more specificially, where does the extra 40 to 60 hours or labor go? Are you talking about a bicycle that has hand carved lugs and unusual bends to the tubes? Is it a bicycle that is completely hand mitered?
Which bicycle builders, past and present, have put that much labor into
their frames?
Obviously, Columbine would fall into that category. Who else? What
about Rivendell? Rene Herse? Holdsworth? Rotrax? How much time was
spent producing the frames at the Carlsbad/Masi shop?
http://columbinecycle.com/
On a different subject. I think the reason custom builders in England are cheaper than the US is that there are still thousands of old custom bicycles floating around the place--left over from the glory days of English cycling in the '50s and '60s. Back in those days, there were lots of young people who had fancy racing frames. Those bicycles were transportation as well as a hobby. Then cars became cheap with the introduction of the Morris Minor and Mini, and very quickly, the bicycle market collapsed. The modern, custom builders in England can't charge thousands for fancy lugged steel frames when you can find an older, decent Hetchins, Holdsworth, Claud Butler, etc. for much less. Most of the market today for racing bicycles in England is for the same thing that is selling over here: carbon Treks, aluminum (aluminium) Cannondales, and Ti. Litespeeds. Rivendell could not be located in England if they only sold their top-end, fancy lugged bicycles! They would be too expensive.
Some amazing stuff comes out of Brian's garage.
Later, Stratton Hammon Lousiville, Kentucky, USA
Brian Wrote:
On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:38:03 GMT brianbaylis@juno.com writes:
Taz,
>There are a few things that I must correct in terms of what you
>understand regarding the time it takes to build a frame. The build
times
>of various builders are not "standarized". There seem to be two basic
and
>distinct catagories. The typical effecient long time professional
>framebuilder is shooting for a 15 to 20 hours MAXIMUM build time. The
>are
>lots of ways to achieve this using "modern" framebuilding parts and
>methods, even amongst lugged steel builders. A feame is generally
>constructed in a 2.5 to 3 day period.
>The other catagory, which is not well recognized, are in fact the "art
>builders" whose general production takes AT LEAST 60 hours to complete;
>and can often reach 80 hours and over for something custom designed and
>unique. I can rarely even get in that much effort over the period of a
>month, even if I had nothing else to do. It is not routine work and
>requires motivation and a focused mental approach.