the kind of work you describe is not nearly extinct. it's more available and in-your-face than ever before; kirk's gallery is evidence that there is no shortage of builders who can add a personal touch to "lugwork". imo, as long as a frame is handbuilt by a person, even if it is always the exact same size, made with the exact same parts, it will contain all the virtues that come with the so-called "bling bling" frames. it's there because it's all "handwork". the personal touch is imparted in all aspects of the build, file strokes simply being one task among many. e-RICHIE chester, ct ps: xoxoxoxoxoooo's
On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:24:21 GMT brianbaylis@juno.com writes:
Richard,
Not meant as an OUCH Richie, but as you know I have strong feelings about this. Certainly both approaches have their place. Each is serving a purpose and a certain type of customer. With all due respect, I feel that my approach works well for me. I also feel that an example must be available for those to follow, if they are interested in that way. Personally, I see no reason for a small builder to try to compete with other types of handmade production. We are in the prime spot to do what they cannot, which is put personal attention into every detail of frame design, construction, and artistry. It's what makes us all different.
I have a lot of bikes. I like them all. But I do admit a special fondness for a bike that is unique and has character specific to that individual frame. They all ride weel enough to enjoy immeasurably. But sometimes I like to just look at the bike and feel all warm and fuzzy about at the special attention the frame got. Nothing personal, I respect the work of all framebuilders; and since you're a special friend I respect what you do and think as well. No OUCH intended.
Brian Baylis La Mesa, CA Framebuilders are my friends, regardless of how they go about it. Period.
"...we should continue to persist at resisting out of the box frame construction if that is what you prefer to do."
ouch! e-RICHIE chester, ct
On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:52:24 GMT brianbaylis@juno.com writes:
Richard,
I didn't say that frames that have nicely filed lugs are no longer
available; I said they are nearly extinct. That means that while once
there were many framebuilders filing lugs (to a degree out of
neccessity), there now is nearly no one who wants to put in the time and
effort to make a more refined than "normal" frame these days.
Back in the day, most notable framebuilders had a style of filing and
finishing lugs that gave the bike a look that was recognizable and
refined as compared to the production bikes of the day. The first bike I
ever saw with a real extensive file job would be Eisentraut. Although I
think that style is too thin for my taste, at the time it was
distinctive, along with the other unique traits of the frame like the
binder arrangement. Mark DiNucci, Keith Lippy, Dana Fennimore, Wizard
Cycles, Peter Weigle, Mark Nobelette, Chris Kvale, Doug Fattic, W.B.
Hurlow, Ephgrave, Tom Kellogg and many others had the eye and the hand
for filing nice lugs. Some of these guys are still doing it, along with a
VERY few newer guys like Richard Moon. I'm sure they feel, as I do, that
there is another level of craftsmanship involved in making frames this
way. Many consumers can't really see the extra work in such frames nor
want to pay the extra money; but some still do and we should continue to
persist at resisting out of the box frame construction if that is what
you prefer to do. Both ways are valid, there is a place for everyone and
everything; but they are NOT all the same. No one is claiming one is
better than the other, there is a difference and we should seek to
recognise and acknowledge these subtle refinements and not downplay them
as unneccessary or irrelevent to framebuilding. The satisfaction of
making such frames is more than enough to justify doing it for those who
are so inclined. We as framebuilders should recognize this aspect of the
craft also, and not diminish the fact that those who take the extra time
to refine the lugs are also taking extra time in every aspect of
framebuilding to insure that the refined lugs adorn a refined frame as
well.
Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA