RE: [CR]Masi GC on ebay, etcetera... long... and short

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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:10:08 -0500
From: "Grant McLean" <Grant.McLean@SportingLife.ca>
Subject: RE: [CR]Masi GC on ebay, etcetera... long... and short
To: "'Bikerdaver@aol.com'" <Bikerdaver@aol.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org


Dave,

Fair enough. I'll plead guilty to not looking at things the same way as everyone else. To clarify one point which may have been confusing, since we were talking about two different ebay masi's.

My point about brand new, in the box Haro-Masi's road bikes and frames being sold on Ebay at discounted prices needs to be looked at separately from selling vintage items on ebay. Obviously ebay is THE place to sell your vintage stuff and get the highest price.

Ebay is also a great place for retailers to dump excess inventory they can't sell in their store, with the added benefit of not flooding their local market with off price goods. As a long time retailer, when I see a constant stream of any brand's "new in the box" bikes or frames flowing through ebay, at slash and burn prices, I see trouble for that brand.

"Bens bike" on Ebay (I've bought stuff from them, they're good ebayer's) has listed like 50 of these Haro-Masi's selling almost none of them at half the retail price. That's not a good sign that things a going really well for the brand! My guess, (and it's just a guess) was all these

frames used to be compete bikes. They were bought from the distributor for less than what the parts are worth, and they got stripped....and off to ebay the frames went.

Grant McLean Toronto.ca

from Completed item "MASI" search: Sort by items: ending first | newly listed | lowest priced | highest priced Picture hideItem TitlePriceBidsEnds

NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CRITERIUM ROAD BIKE FRAMESET - 56cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $850.00-Mar-04 12:44 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CRITERIUM ROAD BIKE FRAMESET - 60cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $850.00-Mar-04 12:45 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CORSA ROAD BIKE FRAMESET Size 49cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $620.00-Mar-04 12:48 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CRITERIUM ROAD BIKE FRAMESET - 53cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $850.00-Mar-04 12:49 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CRITERIUM ROAD BIKE FRAMESET - 51cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $850.00-Mar-04 12:49 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CORSA ROAD BIKE FRAMESET Size 60cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $620.00-Mar-04 12:49 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CORSA ROAD BIKE FRAMESET Size 56cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $620.00-Mar-04 12:50 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CRITERIUM ROAD BIKE FRAMESET - 49cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $850.00-Mar-04 12:50 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CORSA ROAD BIKE FRAMESET Size 51cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $620.00-Mar-04 12:51 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CORSA ROAD BIKE FRAMESET Size 53cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $620.00-Mar-04 12:51 Albert Eisentraut | Masi | De Rosa | Colnago $399.00-Mar-06 18:44 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CRITERIUM ROAD BIKE FRAMESET - 56cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $850.00-Mar-07 13:08 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CRITERIUM ROAD BIKE FRAMESET - 60cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $850.00-Mar-07 13:10 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CORSA ROAD BIKE FRAMESET Size 49cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $620.00-Mar-07 13:21 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CRITERIUM ROAD BIKE FRAMESET - 53cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $850.00-Mar-07 13:25 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CRITERIUM ROAD BIKE FRAMESET - 51cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $850.00-Mar-07 13:36 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CORSA ROAD BIKE FRAMESET Size 60cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $620.00-Mar-07 13:41 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CORSA ROAD BIKE FRAMESET Size 56cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $620.00-Mar-07 13:50 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CRITERIUM ROAD BIKE FRAMESET - 49cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $850.00-Mar-07 13:58 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CORSA ROAD BIKE FRAMESET Size 51cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $620.00-Mar-07 14:07 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CORSA ROAD BIKE FRAMESET Size 53cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $599.00-Mar-11 11:47 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CORSA ROAD BIKE FRAMESET Size 51cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $599.00-Mar-11 11:47 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CORSA ROAD BIKE FRAMESET Size 56cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $599.00-Mar-11 11:48 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CORSA ROAD BIKE FRAMESET Size 60cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $599.00-Mar-11 11:48 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CORSA ROAD BIKE FRAMESET Size 49cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $599.00-Mar-11 11:49 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CRITERIUM ROAD BIKE FRAMESET - 56cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $850.00-Mar-11 11:50 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CRITERIUM ROAD BIKE FRAMESET - 53cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $850.00-Mar-11 11:56 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CRITERIUM ROAD BIKE FRAMESET - 51cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $850.00-Mar-11 11:56 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CRITERIUM ROAD BIKE FRAMESET - 49cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $850.00-Mar-11 11:57 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CRITERIUM ROAD BIKE FRAMESET - 60cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $850.00-Mar-11 11:57 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CRITERIUM ROAD BIKE FRAMESET - 51cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $850.00-Mar-11 12:51 NEW! 2003 MASI GRAN CRITERIUM ROAD BIKE FRAMESET - 53cm

Alloy frame with Carbon Fiber stays and Carbon Fork $850.00-Mar-11 12:51

-----Original Message----- From: Bikerdaver@aol.com [mailto:Bikerdaver@aol.com] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 12:54 AM To: Grant.McLean@SportingLife.ca; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Cc: richardsachs@juno.com Subject: Re: [CR]Masi GC on ebay, etcetera... long... and short

Grant- I love you to death, but think you have a convoluted way of looking at things that will get you nowhere but trouble. Just because you don't covet something don't extend that belief to the rest of the worlds one billion plus bikers. Fluff, "Mojo", Hot Air, thats all the same. It won't make your bike any fast or handle any better. That goes double for a "sliding cool scale" etc., etc. As I have observed and stated here on the list, I had always been told that California Masi were FAKE Masi, and it wasn't until I found a few vocal people on this list that I had hold my cards close to my chest just to keep from having someone flame me to death. I agree with you that Haro isn't out to make the best bike possible, but neither was Mario Confrente, Alvin Drysdale, Rene Herse. Strange as it may sound to you, bike builders are in business to be in business! I mean if you have done a thorough road test with an older Masi and a modern Haro, and completed a full structural analysis to prove your point, that would be one thing. But whether they are being sold on ebay or not, its a lot more than I think you are doing, sitting on the side lines claiming that "they are wrong", as if you had the final say on a bike's value. As a friend, just keeping you away from the deep end of the pool. cheers Dave Anderson Cut Bank MT

In a message dated 3/18/2004 2:20:11 PM PST, Grant.McLean@SportingLife.ca writes: E richie, Nothing makes the new ones gran criteriums. Nobody covets them. The interesting twist in the whole tale is possibly, in a way, because of this list, the original USA masi's have more mojo than the Italian built frames. But that mojo doesn't extend beyond the California built frames, I believe anyway.

People covet cool bikes. What makes them cool is a sliding scale based on how practiced your eye is and how experienced your legs are. I'm sure there are people who would come across this ebay masi an think it's cool, but after learning more about the story of masi, and all the lore, wouldn't think a California masi is 100x cooler? Or a Pela one? forgedaboudit.

As for a modern Haro-masi, same deal. If you're looking for a modern race bike, there's lots of reasons to buy something else. A nice Bianchi, Cannondale, or Pinarello spring to mind.

An unbroken line between a rich, history-filled past and the high tech future is the most obvious definition of cool when it comes to most brands. When brands stumble, or get off the path along the way, it doesn't necessarily mean an end to all their future collecting value, but it doesn't usually help. Lots of brand value comes from what you don't make, from as much as what you do. Who would argue that a RICHARDSACHS would have more value if you diversified into mountianbikes, shopping carts, and forklifts? I bet you could make a damn fine shopping cart if you wanted to. But you don't want to, and that's the point.

The brands like Haro don't live to make the best bike possible, they exist by making the smallest effort at product development and try to sell that product at a profit. So when Haro puts "masi" stickers on a 2nd rate product, it doesn't mean it's any better than the same bike with Haro stickers on it. But someone at haro thinks they will sell more bikes if it has a "real" road brand name on it. That's why they are doing it. And they are wrong. They're not selling many bikes, that's why they are on ebay.

Grant McLean Toronto.Ca

O \O/ _< \_ _< _ (_)>(_) (_)>(_) e-RICHIE querried: so many yearsafter the original name was sold to mr salm for u.s. consump-tion, what is there about these frames - the ebay one or the haro one - that makes them "gran criteriums"? is it simply based in legal rights to the name? technically, yes! but is that why folks covet these? chester, ct