Don,
I think your statement is a little misleading, being one who knows full well what time is or isn't involved in prepping lugs. IC lugs "out of the box" that don't involve reshaping or any hand cutouts are basically ready to go aside from cleaning and removing the skin, which might take all of 10 minutes if you have a simple die grinder and a sandblaster. Anyone doing a proper job of pressed lugs will spend a considerably greater time than the 10 minutes just securing the seat lug binder area, not to mention the other aspects of prepping pressed lugs and getting a pleasent shape. Either lugs can be reshaped, so you can add that time to either method. Reshaping IC lugs is a little harder than reshaping a pressed lug, but not that much, and I think most people use gringers and other things to remove some of the metal. The issue of hardness really comes into play in finish filing lugs. Many IC lugs do not get this finish filing. Timewise, if one does file either type of lug it takes about the same amount of time, at least for me. The difference in the end is that the look of the pressed lug is more to my taste and the "feel" of filing is much less enjoyable on IC; the feel of filing pressed lugs is quite enjoyable to me and I like doing it. I think some resort to a dyna-file to thin hard lugs because of the wear and tear on files and the "awkward" feel of filing castings. I hand file everything, including fillet brazes. I'm not a fan of the dyna-file for my type of work.
So, not to be contrary, but I think your original statement wasn't quite to the point of our discussion about how much time is involved. It's pretty obvious to me there is a big difference in the time involved. IC lugs are designed primarly to same time; at least that's what 99.9% of the industry id doing with them. The Pacenti lug is probably the only IC lug ever designed with "the artist" in mind.
Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA
I would like to point out that using investment cast lugs in lieu of pressed steel does not automatically mean their preparation takes less time. You can use IC lugs out of the box just as you can use Nervex or you can take the time to make them what you want them to be. If the latter is true (it is for every builder I know and I know lots of them), I'd say the LS's take more time simply from the fact that the material is not softer than whale sh!t like the Nervii and its ilk are. Can I say "whale sh!t" in Dale's living room? Sorry Dale.
Cheers! Don Ferris Anvil Bikeworks, Inc. Littleton, Colorado Ph: 303.471.7533 / 303.919.9073 Fax: 413.556.6825 http://www.anvilbikes.com
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Richard M Sachs Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 6:53 AM To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Not Buying IN - long
snipped: <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> writes: "You say it takes you twice as long to make a bike frame now (using your investment cast lugs?) as it did using pre-investment cast lugs (pressed steel lugs?)? And that the 200% increase in time it takes you to make a frame today is in the parts of the frame that do not include the lugs????? Would you elaborate in some detail please?" /-------------****---------------****---------------\
it's quite simple, ChuckissimoR. preparing and filing 3 frame lugs is not the entire body of work needed to make a frame. but - you knew that. in the ensuing years since i switched from pressed steel to cast lugs - and i still do use pressed steel lugs as well...
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