Re: [CR]Cinelli years


Example: Framebuilders:Doug Fattic

In-Reply-To: <AA4A20F6-99A9-11D8-898C-000393004AFC@mac.com>
References:
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:37:21 -0700
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
From: Jan Heine <heine93@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [CR]Cinelli years


A Cinelli (# 1626) sold by Spence Wolf on 9/29/1965 has the following features:

- 70 mm BB shell - brass head badge - no "ears" in lugs - oiler hole in top and bottom of BB shell - aluminum bars (Cinelli) - steel stem (Cinelli) - Brooks Professional saddle (I think that was introduced around then)

The bike is all original (the owner raced for a year, then hung it up), and still has the original invoice from Wolf. The frame is a 65 cm size - being such an unusual size (?), it could have been special-ordered, thus made in 1965, or it could be one that was lying around for a long time until somebody finally requested such an odd size... (Or maybe it was not such an odd size for Spence to order, Californians being rather tall compared to Italians.)

Of course, it also is possible that Spence milled down the BB shell of an older frame to be able to fit the latest Campy spindle. I consider this unlikely, because the longer spindles presumably were available in 1965. Either way, 74 mm shells most likely were a thing of the past by 1965 (either a new frame without or an older frame modified to "new" spec).

But this shows how hard it is to deduct from existing bikes. The only two "firm" conclusions I can see from this bike are that lugs without "ears" and Cinelli aluminum bars were introduced no later than 1965. Which only confirms we already knew.

Doesn't the Cupertino bike shop still have the records of Cinelli sales? Maybe something can be deducted there, because the invoices often were very specific in what parts were included...

BTW, the bike, with all Campy Record or equivalent parts, Mafac Top 63 brakes, Scheeren wood-filled rims, 200 gr. silk tires and Brooks Professional saddle, cost the princely sum of $ 235.50. -- Jan Heine, Seattle Editor/Publisher Vintage Bicycle Quarterly http://www.mindspring.com/~heine/bikesite/bikesite/
>Mike Kone wrote:
>
>Other "open" questions from the Cinelli dialog include:
>
>During what periods was the 74mm shell width used?
>
>When did Cinelli last use lugs with ears on the SC's?
>
>When did Cinelli go to the smaller headbadge and did they always use small
>ones from then on?
>
>These should be straightforward questions, and are questions that I
>thought I had a pretty good feel for - but the more everyone shares with
>me on these the fuzzier my brain is getting.
>__
>
>Why no precise Cinelli dates in the 1950s and 60s? - Some vagueness
>is explained by overlaps in framebuilding supplies and things laying
>around before they were built up into bikes. But what about the
>questions of when they first appeared? I've heard '59 to '63 for
>intro of Bivalent hubs, '60 to '65 for aluminum bars, and also a
>good half decade on the Fischer BB and big vs small badges.
>
>Many of the dates given in published articles have been contested
>here on the List, such as Gabe Konrad's article
><http://www.bicycletrader.com/archives/13articles.html>
>
>and "La Storia" from Cinelli
><http://www.petry.org/markp/lastoria.htm> where it says the 74mm
>Fischer BB disappeared around 1965.
>
>I'd really like to know more about the Italian team in the 1960
>Olympics, if it's true they were on SCs w/ all the goodies. Also, I
>remember Dave Staub was excellent on Cinelli specifics of the early
>60s- did anyone ask him about these questions?
>
>-Jack Bissell,
>proxy member of Cino Fan Club
>Tucson Az