Re: [CR]Campagnolo pista hubs....flange heights

From: "Angel M Garcia" <>
To: <>
References: <> <p06100500bcc9cd1ecfee@[]>
Subject: Re: [CR]Campagnolo pista hubs....flange heights
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:22:37 -0400

In the small accumulated pile of stuff I have I found some articles on wheelbuilding by Dick Swann. My old-timer friend says he worked at one time for Kopps in Princeton, NJ, as a wheelbuilder and that he was English(?). I guess some here would know him? Here are some of the things he said (material is undated):

1) .....resilient small flanged wheels used by stage race riders differ greatly from the tied, large flanged wheels favored by hill climbers.... 2)....the very object of using a large flange hub is to stiffen the wheel.... 3.....Circuit races (crits, Kermesses, etc.): on small tight courses with many corners, it is best to use a large flange hub to steady the bike in the many (often sharp) corners. Also, with the numerous accelerations that must occur on such courses this large front hub wheel prevent wheel whip (me: what is wheel whip?!) 4) ...Timetrialing: do use small hubs for lightness and halving wind resistance.... 5)...Hillclimbing: The front wheel has to be extra strong; in some events the rider is off the saddle with his weight on the front wheel for up top 75% of the distance... 6)....Sprinting: Large or medium size hubs... 7)....Paced racing: use largest flanged hubs available... 8)....Track timetrialing: small flange hubs.... 9)....Team pursuiting: "heavy" large flanged wheels

for each of these categories he has suggestions for spoke counts, spoke gauges, when wheels should be tied and soldered, etc.

Angel Garcia Long Valley, NJ

> >Wayne Davidson asked:
> >
> >Hi all, a little question to the group, re rear pista hubs, which is
> >more common, and which would build a stronger wheel, small flange or
> >large flange?
> Harvey Sachs replied:
> >Sir, this question is more likely to set of a theological schism
> >among the honorable members than to settle things. It could get you
> >kilt...
> >But that may be fun, too. As far as I can tell, flange height is
> >the bike industry's equivalent of skirt length: pure fashion. The
> >compliance of the tire must overwhelm flex in any other component of
> >the wheel. So, you can worry, match what the fashion dictated in
> >that decade, or be a funkmeister and grab what you find at the right
> >price.*
> That's a good answer to the second clause, but a more specific answer
> is possible to the first clause, viz.:
> In the pista (track) world, high flange hubs are way more common than
> low flange.
> In the road area, it's more a matter of period. Up through the early
> '70s, high flange was the norm, while after that, small flange became
> the fashion.
> Actually, if mem'ry serves, this change was roughly contemporaneous
> with the move from centerpull to sidepull brakes, and from fancy to
> plain lugs.
> A digression: The abbreviation of hub styles is a slippery matter,
> almost as error prone as "SR" vs. "SR"*:
> *One way to go is HF (High Flange) vs. LF (Low Flange.)
> *T'other way is LF (Large Flange) vs. SF (Small Flange.)
> Thus, the abbreviation "LF" is fundamentally ambiguous, and should
> generally be avoided if you value clear communication.
> Sheldon "Used To Like HF Rear, SF Front" Brown
> Newtonville, Massachusetts
> +---------------------------------+
> | Is ambivalence a bad thing? |
> | Well, yes and no. |
> | -- Garrison Keillor |
> +---------------------------------+
> *"Super Record" or "Sakae Ringyo"
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