Re: [CR]RE: l'Alpe d'Huez (reviving an old/new Carbon/Ergo argument)(long)

Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:50:45 -0400
Subject: Re: [CR]RE: l'Alpe d'Huez (reviving an old/new Carbon/Ergo argument)(long)
From: Richard M Sachs <>

snipped: "Enjoy and ride old bikes and new bikes and let's move off this idea that "only our old bikes are cool" and "modern bikes are soul-less junque"

matt u r my hero. e-RICHIE chester, ct

On Wed, 19 May 2004 08:35:50 -0700 "Matthew Gorski" <> writes:
> Ray H (Hi Ray!)ponders the reliability of modern componentry.....
> ************
> Hopefully this doesn't start another protracted flame war
> *but* here goes. I don't understand the perception that CF
> frames and modern/ergo components are fragile/unworthy/crap
> compared to the old stuff. I LOVE old bicycles... I have
> perhaps 80 excellent named steel bicycles (Colnago, Masi,
> Herse, Singer, Paramount, Pogliaghi, Hetchins, Taylor etc.)
> with all the parts we love. I ride the 'oldies' all the time!
> I also have 2 Colnago C-40's of the CF/plastic ilk. One is
> all Campy Record 10 (more cf) and the other is set up as a
> fixed gear. I have 4 heavy years of riding between the two
> of them. I'm also a Clydesdale at 230 pounds. I have not had
> an instance of any frame flex/self shifting/chipping etc in
> regards to the carbon frames. I use 25mm Conti's- the fit so
> close the clearance is almost nil. I have ridden in the rain
> and mud without incidence. I did a 400K brevette last year
> over the Ridge Route (CA) in the POURING rain in the muddy,
> hilly, steep unpaved sections with nil clearance WITHOUT any
> problems. Another listmember, if I remember correctly was
> using Delta brakes in these same conditions.
> Another point about fragility(?) of Carbon Fibre.... I was hit
> last year on PCH at about 50mph by a car...I was probably doing
> 18-20 mph or so. I went down hard and broke my collarbone and got
> banged up pretty good. This C-40 also has Campagnolo Nucelons-
> no damage to frame, wheels other than maybe a scuff. The Ergo
> levers got a bit roughed up so now they're on an Eddy Merckx
> (Record 10) steel MX Leader. This example is to illustrate that
> carbon fibre doesn't necessarily explode on impact ;^)
> This is NOT an Info-mercial for Carbon Fibre bikes or Modern
> onentry. It is simply to convey that all that's New isn't
> bad. I love the old stuff...I like the new stuff. What's odd is
> that most everyone who grumbles about the 'new' stuff haven't
> even ridden any of it. Surely there are exceptions *but* the
> Record 10/C-40 combination had performed FLAWLESSLY for 4 years
> for me. I don't care if it has a 5?-10?-20? year lifespan or
> whatever might be supposed...In 10/20 more years I'll be getting
> Senior Citizen who cares! Who owns or uses their
> first cellphone, calculator, answering machine, computer etc. now
> and uses it regularly? Of course our olde bicycles are different
> (TIC)...I don't mean to step on the toes of XT or 286 computer, HP
> 35
> calculator, brick-cell or rotary phone users.
> There are Luddites on this list who won't be placated by anything
> other than their provincial views...This message isn't for YOU!!!!
> If you reply to this as such you will merely have 'outed yourself.'
> Enjoy and ride old bikes and new bikes and let's move off this idea
> that "only our old bikes are cool" and "modern bikes are soul-less
> junque"
> I am writing this to merely open up some awareness....I don't hold
> any absolutes in regards to my vs. your experience or that one new
> component or frameset is better than another. Lets have fun here!
> <rant off so flame away-I'm nomex ready>
> Matt Gorski
> Beautiful Belmont Shore, CA
> <snip>
> They also jogged my memory about the comparison of
> today's bikes with those of years gone by. I came down on the side
> of
> today's bikes for performance in today's environment. I wonder how
> they
> would fair up under the road conditions that we see in these photos.
> How
> many stone hits can the CF frame take? How long before the
> dirt/dust
> clogs
> that narrow 10 speed chain. What about being behind someone for a
> long
> distance throwing up all sorts of stuff into your fine ergo
> shifters.
> Perhaps I need to re-think my first impression. I guess we could
> ask
> some
> cyclecross folks these questions but not so sure they use the items
> that
> I
> just discussed for that type of racing.
> Ray Homiski
> Elizabeth, NJ