Re: [CR]Re Lugless frames/ bilam/performance

Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:59:01 -0400
Subject: Re: [CR]Re Lugless frames/ bilam/performance
From: Richard M Sachs <>

hi mark. i think i should have reeled in my remark: "studys on this stuff do not exist."

i apologize for trying to be so sweeping in my statement. i knew that there were folks that analyzed data: your text here addresses some. reynolds also accumulated info to conclude which builders could pass their stringent 753 levels. bicycling magazine had the tarantula that gary klein made. damon rinard did his stiffness thing. etcetera.

i'm sure there are others. e-RICHIE aka Richard M Sachs chester, ct

On Sat, 22 May 2004 00:20:13 +0100 "Mark Stevens" <> writes:
> Marcus Helman wrote:
> By worse I meant more prone to failure, poorer performing (I know,
> probably subjective too). My point is that you raised the issue of
> the
> tubes having the potential to be overheated. Do theses frames tend
> to exhibit the characteristics of having been built with too much
> heat?
> studys on this stuff do not exist.
> it's all conjecture - my take on it is that the decorations
> are the builder's attempts to dress up a plain looking joint.
> aka Richard M Sachs
> chester, ct
> Richie, there was a study carried out by National Physical
> Laboratory,
> Teddington England on behalf of Gillotts. They were marketing their
> "
> L"Atlantique" at the time and reproduced these results in their
> circa 1950
> catalogue.
> Quote;
> About the Famous "L'Atlantique"
> For too long welded frames have had a bad reputation _ and in truth
> many of
> those produced deserved the stigma. Too often they were badly made
> without
> thought of the particular requirements a lug-less frame needed and
> frequently the skill of the maker left much to be desired. We knew
> that this
> state of affairs was unnecessary and that properly made a welded
> frame was
> the equal of the more orthodox lugged frame. In introducing the
> famous
> "L'Atlantique" three years ago we demonstrated our faith, which has
> been
> amply justified. Today it is firmly established as the finest welded
> frame
> made, worthy to stand on its merits equally with its stable
> companion, the
> famous connoisseur lugged frame. Not only does the National
> Physical
> Laboratory support our opinion, but riders have also proved it in
> the only
> practical way they can- by hard riding over along period.
> All our welders hold A.I.D Certificates and they are specialists
> in cycle
> frame construction. This fact, combined with the special 531 tubing
> we use,
> is the reason why the "L'Atlantique" is so popular today. Here is
> the
> reproduction of the report from the National Physical Laboratory.