Hi Tom ,
yup , yup , yup , yup .
"Record" hubs were made from 1958 through 1987 .
"Record" "crank-arms" were made from 1958 through 1985 .
( some folks think since "crank" and "arm" mean the same thing , calling that part a "crank-arm" is being a bit redundant , personally I still like the term "crank-arm" , but it rubs some folks the wrong way , and I certainly see what they mean about it being repetitive )
HOWEVER , for a VERY short , brief , tiny-time , in 1973 , Campagnolo made a TINY small number of rare "Super Record" hubs ! The ONLY difference was that they had titanium axles . There were breakage problems with the tiny number they tried using . Production was stopped , quickly .
( see the 1974 Raleigh catalog , for a spectacular photo of the very early "pre-production" "Super Record" group , on the 1974 Raleigh Team Professional bicycle . Note the black headset , and black chainrings !! )
And , of course , for the last two or three years of production , 1985-1987 , all of the "crank-arms" were smooth , not fluted , like the "50th Anniversary" "crank-arms" of 1983 . And those late-production , 1985-1987 , smooth arms , are generally called "Super Record" .
Although , if , and I only say if , Campagnolo was still making a few "Nuovo Record" groups , during that same time , and if , if , they included the smooth-arms in those very last "Nuovo Record" groups . . . Well then !! In that case we'd be right back to the starting place with all of these terms . . .
Anyway ,
Properly , most correctly , to avoid any confusion , the name for the "crank-arms" is almost 100% "Record" .
The "Record" crankset was released in 1958 .
They were beautiful in appearance , and beautiful in function too !
They were hideously , unbelievably EXPENSIVE !!!!!!
Very few were sold , or made !
Over the years , as they made more , they became less expensive , so they made more , and they became less expensive , etc. , etc .
The early-early ones have ALWAYS been rare-Rare-RARE !!!!!!
The "crank-arms" CHANGED , many times , but the name stayed the same !
Earliest ones had "bosses" or raised lips , around the pedal holes . Also , the pedal holes had "backs" . So , you could not see through the pedal holes . There were special pedals , with slightly shorter threads , for those cranks . If you use later pedals with those cranks , you will blow out the little "backing plates" . That will really reduce the value of the cranks , by quite a bit .
There were also other , even smaller , more subtle , differences in the aluminum .
What changes happened first , and when , I don't know .
But then , in late 1968 , they changed the bolt-hole-circle . THIS is when they should have changed the name to "Nuovo Record" . They'd already used the Nuovo Record name , on the rear derailleur , and the bottom bracket assembly , both in late 1967 . But they did not change the name of the "crank-arms" .
1958-1968 151mm 44-tooth minimum
1968-1987 144mm 41-tooth minimum
By the way , the change was not as large as you might think . Basically all they did was to drill the holes in slightly different places , which allowed them to reduce the minimum number of teeth !
Then in 1973 they released the "Super Record" chainrings , along with the "Super Record" bottom bracket ( titanium axle , aluminum-alloy cups with pressed-in steel races , special size for the ball bearings ) .
So , there were never any "Nuovo Record" "crank-arms" , and there were never any "Nuovo Record" chainrings !!!!!!
But , there were many different versions of those "crank-arms" . And , there were six ( 6 ) different types of bottom bracket assemblies !!!!!!
1.) "Record" bottom bracket 1958 - 1967 ( but who knows when they actually made the very last of these , or when they sold the last ones from old inventory ?? )
2.) "Nuovo Record" b.b. 1967 - 1977
3.) "thick" "C.P.S.C." "Nuovo Record" b.b. 1978 - 1987
4.) "Super Record" b.b. 1973 - 1977
5.) "thick" "C.P.S.C." "Super Record" b.b. 1978 - 1987
6.) solid version of "thick" "C.P.S.C." "Super Record" b.b. 1982 - 1987 , axle was solid , and used nuts , instead of being hollow and using bolts .
. . . and then of course , there were all those various lengths of bottom bracket axles . . .
Oh , and about hubs , yes , they were all "Record" , but don't forget that in 1963 they actually began stamping them with the word "Record" - so , the earlier 1958 - 1962 versions withOUT the word "Record" on them , are more rare and more valuable . . .
And about the name "Record" being confusing . . . well , yes , it is . . . In 1985 , when the "C-Record" or "Corsa-Record" group was introduced , I heard people calling it "New-Record" ( like using the name "New-Dura-Ace" ) . Of course , that only works if keep your English entirely separate from your Italiano , since New = Nuovo .
I have heard people use the term "Original-Record" to describe the chrome-plated derailleurs which were made before those aluminum "Nuovo Record" derailleurs came along .
I like that name , "Original-Record" .
That seems to be clear , and easy to use , "Original-Record" .
The "Original-Record" rear derailleur was made from October 1963 , through 1973 .
Thanks Chuck !! Love that Campagnolo Timeline !!
available at :
http://www.classicrendezvous.com
:^) Raoul Delmare Marysville Kansas U.S.A.
----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Sanders To: Raoul Delmare Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 2:33 PM Subject: Pissy about Super Record crankarms
Raoul, are you saying these were like the hubs that remained constant (except for axle length to determine whether they would work in wider spacing with wider freewheels) through the Nuovo Record -Super Record period?
I can understand how a part may be the same while the others around it change, but I have such problems saying they are merely Record. What, then, would one call the cranks from an 8, 9, or 10 speed Record group of recent times? When we call them both Record, it is wildly confusing to say the least.
In fact, I believe there was a movement to call C Record merely Record also. Then they called it something like the C-180 group and I have even heard Corsa Record. Now please realize I am not disputing with you or arguing against your point with the cranks, but I am wondering how we are to make sense of all this? I wonder if others find this as muddled as I seem to or is it just senility rearing it's ugly head here in Lansing, Mi Tom Sanders
P.S.If you wish to forward this to the group, feel free. T.S.