Re: [CR]ebay outing: mystery bianchi

(Example: Racing:Jean Robic)

From: "Alistair Johnston" <synertik@telus.net>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: Re: [CR]ebay outing: mystery bianchi
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:32:06 -0700
Organization: Synertik
Thread-Index: AcRe6AVyJ5SVH+IlQVa6fyKD5PHdNwAEflNA
In-Reply-To: <CATFOODSvyhFUwGP1Cd00002646@catfood.nt.phred.org>


Now that’s interesting for sure. I thought it was only me that felt this was a strange listing. I would agree that it is probably a 56cm frame based on other auctions I have followed that were labelled M. However it is very strange to get such little information. After reading Kim's post I am sure several people will do as I did and asked a whole load of questions of the seller. Let's see what he/she has to say Alistair Johnston White Rock, BC

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 2:20 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 18, Issue 107

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CR

Today's Topics:

1. Re: Hirose on Japan bay (richardsachs@juno.com) 2. Re: Hirose on Japan bay (Kurt Sperry) 3. Re: Hirose on Japan bay 4. Re: ebay outing: mystery bianchi (kim klakow) 5. Re: Hirose on Japan bay (richardsachs@juno.com) 6. Re: Hirose on Japan bay (richardsachs@juno.com) 7. Pat Rohan cycles (Ben and Tracy) 8. Re: Steven Maasland's Marinoni response 9. RE: Hirose on Japan bay (Anvil Bikeworks) 10. fork rake 11. Re: fork rake 12. Decals (Bill Rider) 13. Re: Word file 14. WAS: UPDTAE - Was: New member intro - hello! (Arie Litman) 15. Re: Re: Steven Maasland's Marinoni response (Fred Rafael Rednor) 16. Re:Hirose on Japan bay (Jeff Slotkin) 17. Re: Re: Steven Maasland's Marinoni response (jerrymoos)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 18:59:18 GMT From: "richardsachs@juno.com" <richardsachs@juno.com> To: OROBOYZ@aol.com Cc: jvs@sonic.net Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Hirose on Japan bay Message-ID: <20040630.120013.5939.157312@webmail29.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 1

not poo-poo.
e-RICHIE
chester, ct


-- OROBOYZ@aol.com wrote:


In a message dated 6/30/2004 2:25:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, goodrichbikes@netzero.net writes:

<< Look at that fork rake. There must be a mile and a half of offset! The curve starts low and continues through to the drops. This is very attractive to me. >>

What about that? I really, really like the look and the idea of soaking up some bumps but all the theories would say that it would ride like poo poo. What say you, gang?

Dale Brown Greensboro, NC _______________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:07:15 -0700 From: Kurt Sperry <haxixe@gmail.com> To: "oroboyz@aol.com" <oroboyz@aol.com> Cc: jvs@sonic.net Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Hirose on Japan bay Message-ID: <75d04b4804063012073a3aee65@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1a1.265298a7.2e1465e6@aol.com> References: <1a1.265298a7.2e1465e6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2

I don't think the gracefully curved fork blades universal on our on-topic bikes are examples of voodoo science at all as I've seen asserted. A straight bladed fork should tend to exhibit most of its elastic deformation near the crown where the bending moment is the greatest. In my intuitive opinion a curved fork should distribute the bending moment more evenly along the length of the fork blade allowing for more compliance all else being geometrically equal. Any engineers or fellow dilettantes care to weigh in?

Kurt Sperry Bellingham WA

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:52:22 EDT, oroboyz@aol.com <oroboyz@aol.com> wrote:
> In a message dated 6/30/2004 2:25:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> goodrichbikes@netzero.net writes:
>
> << Look at that fork rake. There must be a mile and a half
> of offset! The curve starts low and continues through to the drops. This
> is very attractive to me. >>
>
> What about that? I really, really like the look and the idea of soaking up
> some bumps but all the theories would say that it would ride like poo poo.
> What say you, gang?
>
> Dale Brown
> Greensboro, NC
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:07:39 EDT From: OROBOYZ@aol.com To: richardsachs@juno.com Cc: jvs@sonic.net Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Hirose on Japan bay Message-ID: <be.10632b9a.2e14697b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3

OROBOYZ@aol.com writes:

<< I really, really like the look and the idea of soaking up some bumps but all the theories would say that it would ride like poo poo. >>

richardsachs@juno.com writes:

<< not poo-poo. >>

Ah ha! Rides like a Haiku?

Expound, expound.

Dale Brown Greensboro, NC ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 21:11:13 +0200 (MEST) From: "kim klakow" <Akimbo71@gmx.net> To: chasds@mindspring.com Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]ebay outing: mystery bianchi Message-ID: <10046.1088622673@www19.gmx.net> References: <12274655.1088619623067.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 4

Looks like a 56 cm frame. That spot of rust in the second picture might also indicate a little fender bender. I´d ask for pics of the fork before I´d bid.

Kim Klakow Berlin, germany


> I just had to share this one. The parts are
> probably barely on-topic, although the
> frame is certainly on-topic...what
> I found vastly entertaining was the
> description--a veritable model of brevity--
> but what was really amusing is that
> while there are pictures, there's no picture
> to give a sense of the size of the bike, and
> the size is otherwise not listed... anyway, if
> I'm the only one entertained by this stuff, my
> apologies.
>
> http://ebay.com/<blah>
>
> Charles Andrews
> SoCal
> _______________________________________________
>

-- Kim Klakow Diplom Grafik Designer Akimbo71@gmx.net +49172-1786481

"Sie haben neue Mails!" - Die GMX Toolbar informiert Sie beim Surfen! Jetzt aktivieren unter http://www.gmx.net/info

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 19:14:59 GMT From: "richardsachs@juno.com" <richardsachs@juno.com> To: OROBOYZ@aol.com Cc: jvs@sonic.net Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Cc: richardsachs@juno.com Subject: Re: [CR]Hirose on Japan bay Message-ID: <20040630.121507.5939.157523@webmail29.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 5

the fork rake is not the design. it is part of the design. a completely stable AND race-worthy bicycle can be built around a sound design that <also> has a fair amount of offset - and don't confuse this with bend radius - that is simply an aesthetic consideration.
e-RICHIE
chester, ct


-- OROBOYZ@aol.com wrote:


OROBOYZ@aol.com writes:

<< I really, really like the look and the idea of soaking up some bumps but all the theories would say that it would ride like poo poo. >>

richardsachs@juno.com writes:

<< not poo-poo. >>

Ah ha! Rides like a Haiku?

Expound, expound.

Dale Brown Greensboro, NC

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 19:20:25 GMT From: "richardsachs@juno.com" <richardsachs@juno.com> To: richardsachs@juno.com Cc: OROBOYZ@aol.com Cc: jvs@sonic.net Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Cc: richardsachs@juno.com Subject: Re: [CR]Hirose on Japan bay Message-ID: <20040630.122026.5939.157596@webmail29.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6

btw - i agree with myself.
attaboy.
e-RICHIE
chester prefecture, ct


-- "richardsachs@juno.com" wrote:


the fork rake is not the design. it is part of the design. a completely stable AND race-worthy bicycle can be built around a sound design that <also> has a fair amount of offset - and don't confuse this with bend radius - that is simply an aesthetic consideration.
e-RICHIE
chester, ct


-- OROBOYZ@aol.com wrote:


OROBOYZ@aol.com writes:

<< I really, really like the look and the idea of soaking up some bumps but all the theories would say that it would ride like poo poo. >>

richardsachs@juno.com writes:

<< not poo-poo. >>

Ah ha! Rides like a Haiku?

Expound, expound.

Dale Brown Greensboro, NC

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:23:35 -0700 From: "Ben and Tracy" <eastwindacupuncture@comcast.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Pat Rohan cycles Message-ID: <GFEAJECHKBDKGKAEJMPOAEPMCDAA.eastwindacupuncture@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7

Hello all,

I recently picked up a Pat Rohan from the early 1970's. The NR derailleur was a 72. I am hoping that someone out there has some background on this British builder. I am assuming he is British from the Union Jack fragment on the frame decal. This frame has nice lug work but it has been battered over the years.

I am new to this list so here is a bit of background on me. I started track racing in 1979 did ok at the local level. I have also spent the last 20+ years in and out of the bike biz. Retail at one of the greatest Seattle area shops of the day Wheelsport LTD., sadly long gone. In manufacturing where we built some of the frame building bits and jigs for Tim Isaac when he was building Paramount's and Riverdale's at Match bicycle company. Some consulting for a local company Hampsten Cycles. My current collection has only a few bikes my favorites being a Roberts track bike and a late 70's Raleigh Pro.

Cheers,

Ben Spencer

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 19:29:05 +0000 From: rodk3d@comcast.net To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: Steven Maasland's Marinoni response Message-ID: <063020041929.23401.40E314810002F05A00005B6922007374780BCC050B019D@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 8

Maybe it's me, but responses like these make me want to puke. Is it really necessary to point out a misspelled name? Do we have a personal vendetta going on here? If so, please take it off list. One person is obviously enamored with Marinoni frames and the other seems to have a bad experience with them. I'm quite sure we can find similar sitautions with most any builder you can name. It seems to me lots of the esteemed Italian builders have went modern as has Marinoni. Give me a good USA or British frame ANYDAY!

Rod (gonna go take a valium, maybe some should join me) Kronenberg Fort Collins, CO

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 13:33:31 -0600 From: "Anvil Bikeworks" <ojv@earthlink.net> To: <richardsachs@juno.com> Cc: OROBOYZ@aol.com Cc: jvs@sonic.net Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: RE: [CR]Hirose on Japan bay Message-ID: <000001c45ed9$2201e440$2a68bf3f@D8W8FB21> In-Reply-To: <20040630.122026.5939.157596@webmail29.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 9

I agree with your agreement and the views of my esteemed colleague, Dr. Goodrich, but homey completely lost me with the Campag CF brake levers. Who selected the parts for that bike, Sybil?

Cheers! Don Ferris Anvil Bikeworks, Inc. Littleton, Colorado Ph: 303.471.7533 / 303.919.9073 Fax: 413.556.6825 http://www.anvilbikes.com

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of richardsachs@juno.com Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 1:20 PM To: richardsachs@juno.com Cc: OROBOYZ@aol.com; jvs@sonic.net; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org; richardsachs@juno.com Subject: Re: [CR]Hirose on Japan bay

btw - i agree with myself.
attaboy.
e-RICHIE
chester prefecture, ct


-- "richardsachs@juno.com" wrote:


the fork rake is not the design. it is part of the design. a completely stable AND race-worthy bicycle can be built around a sound design that <also> has a fair amount of offset - and don't confuse this with bend radius - that is simply an aesthetic consideration.
e-RICHIE
chester, ct


-- OROBOYZ@aol.com wrote:


OROBOYZ@aol.com writes:

<< I really, really like the look and the idea of soaking up some bumps but

all the theories would say that it would ride like poo poo. >>

richardsachs@juno.com writes:

<< not poo-poo. >>

Ah ha! Rides like a Haiku?

Expound, expound.

Dale Brown Greensboro, NC

_______________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:43:21 -0400 (EDT) From: chasds@mindspring.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]fork rake Message-ID: <25456111.1088624601686.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: chasds@mindspring.com Message: 10

Kurt and Dale wrote:

<< Look at that fork rake. There must be a mile and a half of offset! The curve starts low and continues through to the drops. This is very attractive to me. >>

What about that? I really, really like the look and the idea of soaking up some bumps but all the theories would say that it would ride like poo poo. What say you, gang?

Dale Brown Greensboro, NC

*********

I know this subject has been discussed before on the list... but in light of the foregoing...just how big a deal is a little more fork-rake? Seems to me that Hirose would ride very nicely, assuming everything else was properly designed.... maybe you wouldn't want to ride a frame like that in the Manhatten Beach Criterium series, but for nearly any other kind of riding, I imagine it'd be very fine.

All by way of saying that "ride like *&^%" is a relative description. One person's "*&^%" is another person's perfection, within reason.

I know people who hate the way Masi GCs handle. And, yes, geometry of those frames is rather lax compared to what came later, but, to me, GCs handle very nicely, and are very pleasant and refined to ride. I prefer the early Colnago Super by a modest amount... but both are refined, aristocratic rides...

seems to me that racers tend to exaggerate small differences..usually though, differences among the best frames are small, and just take a little getting-used-to...heck, for collectors it's a good thing there are differences, or riding all those bikes could get boring..

Charles "to quote that old dude in South Pasadena: 'my favorite bike is the one I'm riding at the moment'" Andrews SoCal

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:58:27 -0500 (CDT) From: <tullio@theramp.net> To: <chasds@mindspring.com> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]fork rake Message-ID: <49597.64.254.207.20.1088625507.squirrel@webmail.theramp.net> In-Reply-To: <25456111.1088624601686.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net> References: <25456111.1088624601686.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 11


> I know this subject has been discussed before on the list... but
> in light of the foregoing...just how big a deal is a little more
> fork-rake?

Fork offset in itself doesn't tell you much. You need to look at trail, which is a function of fork offset, head angle, and tire diameter.

Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery LaSalle, IL 815-223-1776 http://www.heronbicycles.com http://www.tullios.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 13:12:29 -0700 From: "Bill Rider" <charteroak.cycling@verizon.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Decals Message-ID: <001401c45ede$92ee54e0$25140a04@bikerider> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 12

Hi to all, Thanks for all the info on paint stripping. Project underway. All the discussion about older decals brings up a question about current decals: What are current decals printed on so that they can be clearcoated and not show any raised edges? Are these printed on an inkjet or a laser printer? Or does it make any difference? billRider San Dimas, CA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 13:34:27 -0700 From: freitas1@pacbell.net To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: Word file Message-ID: <CATFOOD9Vu60ToVN8470000262c@catfood.nt.phred.org> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="Windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13

Please read the attached file.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 13:49:54 -0700 From: "Arie Litman" <alitman@litman.com> To: "'C.R. List'" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]WAS: UPDTAE - Was: New member intro - hello! Message-ID: <CATFOODh9mYkvxCGTpP00002632@catfood.nt.phred.org> In-Reply-To: <003f01c44b9a$a837ea20$e64efea9@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: alitman@litman.com Message: 14

Hi List Members..

I lurk here a lot, I enjoy the reading (and the picture) but posted only twice. I told you that I have ordered a custom bike, and although it is not a real classic (i.e. old), it is "retro" and comes close to being a classic.

Please ignore the modern components and enjoy the pictures...

http://www.litman.com/bikes/new%20bike.jpg http://www.litman.com/bikes/seat%20clamp.jpg http://www.litman.com/bikes/new%20bike%20decals.jpg http://www.litman.com/bikes/new%20bike%20initials.jpg http://www.litman.com/bikes/new%20bike%20seatpost.jpg http://www.litman.com/bikes/rear%20dropout.jpg

If you want to see some raw frame pictures as it was built visit http://www.litman.com/bikes/eisentraut.htm Arie Litman Sunnyvale Ca.

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Raoul Delmare Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 00:48 To: C.R. List; Bruce C. Subject: Re: [CR]UPDTAE, Was: New member intro - hello!

CONGRATULATIONS !!!!!!

Mr. Albert Eisentraut , ahhhhh yes , I remember when we ALL just KNEW that he was making the absolute finest bicycle frames made in North America . . .

We didn't realize how many other folks there were , or were about to be , building beautiful bicycles out there . . .

These days I know much better than to try to say anyone is THE best . . .

But that is still a big heavy name to drop in a conversation . . .

Congratulations !

:^)
Raoul Delmare
Marysville Kansas


----- Original Message -----
From: Arie Litman
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 11:19 PM
Subject: [CR]UPDTAE, Was: New member intro - hello!



>
> Hi,
>
> Just a follow up on my last post here (April 29, see below)
>
> I got a picture of my bike "in progress" it is almost a bike
> http://www.litman.com/bikes/eisentraut%20RawFrameMed.jpg
>
>
> I will post some more pictures when the bike is painted and built up..
>
>
> Arie Litman
> Sunnyvale Ca.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
> [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Arie Litman
> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 14:09
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR]New member intro - hello!
>
> Hi,
>
> I joined this list today after reading archive for a while, and I think I'm
> in the right place.
>
> I am riding bikes all my life (well, with a 30 years gap in the middle) but
> riding on lightweights I only started only 4 years ago.
> today I am riding a '01 Giant OCR-1 which is an aluminum (gasp!) bike. But
> before you tell me to go away, please read on.
>
> This past Easter I met (through a common friend) Albert Eisentraut and we
> had a chance to socialize and talk about everything including bikes.
> make a long story short, a week later I was at his shop being measured for a
> new Eisentraut bike. He measured me, and my current bike, and watched me
> ride it, and interviewed me about my riding habits, and then told be to go
> away and come back in two and a half months.
>
> Albert will make the frame, paint it (Solid Yellow), and build it for me
> with Campagnolo Centaur 10s (Gray)... I am so excited, I could wet my
> pants..
> Albert promised he'll take pictures of the frame as it is being built, and I
> will work with him to build up the bike once the paint is cured..
>
> As I get the pictures I will post those here... Man! I can't wait!..
>
>
> Arie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________

_______________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:02:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Rafael Rednor <fred_rednor@yahoo.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Steven Maasland's Marinoni response Message-ID: <20040630210241.78378.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <063020041929.23401.40E314810002F05A00005B6922007374780BCC050B019D@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 15

Rod,
     I hope you've relaxed a bit regarding Steven's reply. You might not have cared for his tone - and perhaps some of the information supplied was not really necessary - but he did make a number of points worth knowing. If nothing else, he gave a good explanation of how business was conducted during those years.
     I suppose the most important point was that Marinoni was in the same position as many frame builders in Italy. That is, he was a skilled builder who supplied a great many riders in a particular region (and a few elsewhere) but didn't achieve "legendary" status outside of his own region.
     Actually, based on posts I've read on this list, the same situation existed all over the globe.
      Best regards,
      Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia


--- rodk3d@comcast.net wrote:


> Maybe it's me, but responses like these make me want to puke.
> Is it really necessary to point out a misspelled name? Do we
> have a personal vendetta going on here? If so, please take it
> off list. One person is obviously enamored with Marinoni
> frames and the other seems to have a bad experience with
> them. I'm quite sure we can find similar sitautions with most
> any builder you can name.
> It seems to me lots of the esteemed Italian builders have
> went modern as has Marinoni. Give me a good USA or British
> frame ANYDAY!
>
> Rod (gonna go take a valium, maybe some should join me)
> Kronenberg
> Fort Collins, CO
>
> _______________________________________________
>

__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 17:17:01 -0400 From: Jeff Slotkin <jeffslotkin@comcast.net> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re:[CR]Hirose on Japan bay Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040630171300.00a77110@mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <20040630.120013.5939.157312@webmail29.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 16

Not unlike poo-poo, Which shares one trait with haiku, Either sometimes sudden. (or sodden?)

I tried to resist, and I usually do. On-topic perhaps, owing its Japanese form?

Jeff "better-known for sonnets" Slotkin Goose Creek, SC

At 06:59 PM 6/30/2004 +0000, richardsachs@juno.com wrote:
>not poo-poo.
>e-RICHIE
>chester, ct
>
>
>-- OROBOYZ@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 6/30/2004 2:25:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>goodrichbikes@netzero.net writes:
>
><< Look at that fork rake. There must be a mile and a half
> of offset! The curve starts low and continues through to the drops. This
> is very attractive to me. >>
>
>What about that? I really, really like the look and the idea of soaking up
>some bumps but all the theories would say that it would ride like poo poo.
>What say you, gang?
>
>Dale Brown
>Greensboro, NC
>_______________________________________________
>
>_______________________________________________

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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:24:29 -0500 From: "jerrymoos" <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net> To: "Fred Rafael Rednor" <fred_rednor@yahoo.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Steven Maasland's Marinoni response Message-ID: <00c101c45ee8$a1a0cc70$efddfea9@mooshome> References: <20040630210241.78378.qmail@web11904.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 17

I tend to agree with Rod about one thing. I think the difference between the "top" Italian marques and the "lesser" ones is more perception than reality. Colnago's prominence, for instance is, in my opinion, more due to Ernesto's marketing skills than the quality of his products. He has made some very good bikes no doubt, but so have a lot of guys unknown outside Italy. Of course this is all just opinion, be it Rod's opinion, Steve's opinion, or my opinion. Some argue passionately that Cinelli, or DeRosa or Colnago or Masi "ride like nothing else". Personally I don't see it. My own personal, totally subjective opinion is that nothing rides a well as a 70's French frame made of metric-gauge 531 tubing. But that's just me.

Regards,

Jerry Moos
Houston, TX


----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Rafael Rednor
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Steven Maasland's Marinoni response



> Rod,
> I hope you've relaxed a bit regarding Steven's reply. You
> might not have cared for his tone - and perhaps some of the
> information supplied was not really necessary - but he did make
> a number of points worth knowing. If nothing else, he gave a
> good explanation of how business was conducted during those
> years.
> I suppose the most important point was that Marinoni was in
> the same position as many frame builders in Italy. That is, he
> was a skilled builder who supplied a great many riders in a
> particular region (and a few elsewhere) but didn't achieve
> "legendary" status outside of his own region.
> Actually, based on posts I've read on this list, the same
> situation existed all over the globe.
> Best regards,
> Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia
>
> --- rodk3d@comcast.net wrote:
> > Maybe it's me, but responses like these make me want to puke.
> > Is it really necessary to point out a misspelled name? Do we
> > have a personal vendetta going on here? If so, please take it
> > off list. One person is obviously enamored with Marinoni
> > frames and the other seems to have a bad experience with
> > them. I'm quite sure we can find similar sitautions with most
> > any builder you can name.
> > It seems to me lots of the esteemed Italian builders have
> > went modern as has Marinoni. Give me a good USA or British
> > frame ANYDAY!
> >
> > Rod (gonna go take a valium, maybe some should join me)
> > Kronenberg
> > Fort Collins, CO
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
>
>
>
>
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End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 18, Issue 107 **************************************************