[CR]Re Ernie Clements frames

<brianbaylis@juno.com> writes: "The bikes were in many ways superior to the previous generation of Masis that the same people built in Carlsbad, partially due to having access to a wider variety of cool framebuilding materials to work with."

investment casts lugs? e-RICHIERTC Richard M Sachs Chester, CT site: http://www.richardsachs.com pics: http://photos.yahoo.com/bobbesrs rants: http://richardsachs.blogspot.com/ zany: http://tinyurl.com/22xo7

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Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 13:28:44 -0400 From: LouDeeter@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Wishbone Stay--Biemmezeta Message-ID: <31159D1C.5CF276D6.0269AA25@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 5

Richie mentioned that Biemezeta was the Italian builder with the wishbone stay. Below you will see that the model was the Chronostar, which was at least made in 1985. There were other models in the guide, but I cut them for this post. Lou Deeter, Orlando FL

BIEMMEZETA: Italy, 011-39-429-780788. Tanner Cycle, Peabody MA 01960. Province of Padova, Italy. Italian threading. Investment cast lugs and bottom bracket shell. Columbus tubing. Models: Chronostar 85 SL (Wishbone seatstay)

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Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:29:59 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: chasds@mindspring.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]colnago Super on ebay Message-ID: <14330617.1091554200258.JavaMail.root@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: chasds@mindspring.com Message: 6

Dave wrote:

"And just in case you have an extra $4000 laying around, here's a Colnago you might want. (definitely no relation to seller etc.).

http://ebay.com/<blah> &rd=1

Dave Anderson Cut Bank MT"

********

As Dave implies, this seller is dreamin.' That bike's worth--maybe-- a grand. Then again, who am I to talk? <g>

Charles "frugality is not my middle name, but I kinda wish it was, sometimes" Andrews SoCal

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Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:32:07 -0400 From: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com> To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Regarding Medici (for Tom and Jack) Message-ID: <20040803.133207.2900.38.richardsachs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 7

snipped: "What I refer to mostly about modern materials was that Medici had access to all types of Columbus tubes and could get double taper seat stays, neat fork crowns, stamping tools and dies, and things the typical small time builder like myself didn't have access to or money for. It was nice to have a bunch of cool stuff on hand that went beyond the standard Reynolds boxed sets that we often built frames with in the early days."

oh - i thought you were making the comparison with the previous generations of masi frames.

i've "only" seen medicis with haden europa crowns and don't recall biconical seatstays on them. they exist? e-RICHIERTC Richard M Sachs Chester, CT site: http://www.richardsachs.com pics: http://photos.yahoo.com/bobbesrs rants: http://richardsachs.blogspot.com/ zany: http://tinyurl.com/22xo7

On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 17:20:30 GMT "brianbaylis@juno.com" <brianbaylis@juno.com> writes:
>
>
> Richie,
>
> In all honesty, no. That is what I didn't like about the bikes. I
> admit I like Marios' design as a lug profile, but they were hard and
> hard to work with. They didn't file up like a nice pressed lug. I
> didn't like the clunky seat binder design either. I do like IC BB
> shells and fork crowns. Although a masterfully filed and shaped
> Fischer sand cast BB shell is impossible to beat for style looks and
> quality. I'd still use them if I had them with English threads. Most
> of the ones I have have a spade cut in them anyway (who would want
> that? ;-) ) or I'd use them more often even now. What I refer to
> mostly about modern materials was that Medici had access to all
> types of Columbus tubes and could get double taper seat stays, neat
> fork crowns, stamping tools and dies, and things the typical small
> time builder like myself didn't have access to or money for. It was
> nice to have a bunch of cool stuff on hand that went beyond the
> standard Reynolds boxed sets that we often built frames with in the
> early days. By superior I also mean by design as I mentioned. I did
> not follow the Masi geometry. The bikes were part of the CA racing
> culture of the time. Out here that means mainly track racing and
> criteriums. The bikes' design reflected that. Bill Recht being into
> bicycles was a much more responsive owner to their needs (Medici) as
> framebuilders than Roland Sahm. He had a broader scope of
> framebuilding, offering a standard road, track, and touring model.
> They were considering steel tandem production. All of these things
> made the Medici atmosphere more diverse and creative. It was more
> "fun" and there was slightly more freedom. Simo always keep fairly
> tight to the "rules", but a special project here or there was OK
> upon occassion. That was never allowed at Masi.
>
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
>
>
>
> -- Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com> wrote:
> ped:
> <brianbaylis@juno.com> writes:
> "The bikes were in many ways superior to the previous generation of
>
> Masis that the same people built in Carlsbad, partially due to
> having access to a wider variety of cool framebuilding materials to
>
> work with."
>
>
>
> investment casts lugs?
> e-RICHIERTC
> Richard M Sachs
> Chester, CT
> site: http://www.richardsachs.com
> pics: http://photos.yahoo.com/bobbesrs
> rants: http://richardsachs.blogspot.com/
> zany: http://tinyurl.com/22xo7
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>

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Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 10:36:24 -0700 From: John Jorgensen <designzero@earthlink.net> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: RE:[CR]Regarding Medici (for Tom & Jack) Message-ID: <410FCD18.1BC398BC@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8

snip: investment casts lugs?, questioned Richard M Sachs...

Living & working in a pro bike shop in southern California, I got to see many of these bikes when new. The early ones had what I gathered were Masi "liberated" or "garage sale" fittings, some even had the Masi BB shell with the M cutout. Some early may Wizard's may also have benefited in this way. Later Medici frames had what looked like "Confente" shaped lugs, with a simpler cut out. The owners of some of the bikes at the time stated they were investment cast. Forks were all over the place, some looked like they were buy outs, & not built in house.

Bought one cheap a while back, it's my LA built bike.

The bulgier.net site has some good catalog scans that sort of show the progression, although some of the photography was pick up from previous years.

John Jorgensen Palos Verdes Ca

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Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 13:51:10 -0400 From: LouDeeter@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Argos Frames Message-ID: <3DDF61A9.0D6DD4DF.0269AA25@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 9

More framebuilder questions on the list today than usual. I've totally blown my limit for posts in one 24 hour period, so this one will be the last today. Here is what I have on Argos frames. Given the location is Bristol, I suspect Hilary would tell us all about them. Lou Deeter, Orlando FL

ARGOS: England. Founded in 1974. Arthur Needham and Garry Needham. Unit 12, Riverside Business Park, St. Annes Road, Bristol BS4 4ED. http://www.argoscycles.com/ ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 11:13:28 -0700 From: Morgan Fletcher <morgan@hahaha.org> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Lubricant for Gum Hoods Message-ID: <87brhsw0mv.fsf@fletcher.sonic.net> In-Reply-To: <20040803162615.28861.qmail@web61010.mail.yahoo.com> (Craig Sandvik's message of "Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:26:15 -0700 (PDT)") References: <20040803162615.28861.qmail@web61010.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 10

Craig Sandvik <distracticon@yahoo.com> writes:
> When I watched a shop rat install hoods in the list
> era, he sprayed the inside with rubbing alcohol.
> The idea here is the alcohol evaporates fairly
> quickly so you can go ride sooner. I used hair
> spray last time I did this (admittedly on non-gum
> off-topic hoods).

I've been using hairspray (Aqua Net Extra Hold :-) ) to install mountain bike grips for a long time. The nice thing about hairspray is that it's a lubricant when its wet, but as soon as it dries it's a mild glue, and its water-soluble so its fairly easy to remove the grips later and to clean the bars. (IIRC, motocrossers sometimes use spray paint for the same purpose.) Zip-ties help keep mtb grips on in wet conditions.

I'm not sure I'd do this with road bike brake hoods. The warm water trick sounds best. Whenever I've replaced hoods (not speaking vintage, fragile stuff here) I've always done it dry and just muscled the hoods on. Never had a problem. I can see the concern about doing this with older, rarer hoods. I'd never let brake fluid get near any road bike.

You have my apologies if this is too off-topic or not helpful.

Morgan Fletcher Oakland, CA ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 19:25:36 +0100 From: Hilary Stone <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk> To: R Bulis <RichardBulis@msn.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: CR: Argos Frames Message-ID: <BD35972F.3843D%hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <BAY5-DAV15JvKk69Z0x0002d3f2@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 11

The Argos name was formed from ARthur Needham and another guy whose first name I cannot remember but whose last name was GOss. This partnership did not last long. Argos Cycles was started in 1974 by Arthur Needham as an adjunct to his engineering business. They exported most of their early production to the US - Florida and California. In the late 70s they were on= e of the early builders in this country of the lo-profile frame for time trialling. They have also built frames which were sold under the Dave Lloyd name before he started building himself. Frames are all built in a jig with most of the custom frames now built by Gary Needham, Arthur=B9s son. All the early frames were stock - these days they do both stock and custom frames. They have at several different times imported frames for stock but these normally bear a slightly different transfer. In recent time= s they have concentrated on building time trial frames building most of the recent frames for Stuart Dangerfield, one of Britain's top time triallists.

Hilary Stone, Bristol, England

>=20
> Argos frames were imported by Larry Mersereau in San Rafael/Marin County
> California in the 70's when he couldn't get Ron Cooper to make enough fra= mes
> to satisfy the demand. Coopers were very desirable in that period, and w= ere
> considered the (first? only? best? you pick) Italian style race frame to
> come out of England in that time frame.
>=20
> Argos reputedly came from the makers name, ARt GOSling, ( I could be off = on
> the last name a bit, but you get the idea) and were made in England. The= y
> were priced a bit cheaper than Coopers and were much more available.
>=20
> Ricardo Bulissimo, Verdi, Nevada
>=20
>=20
>=20

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Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 19:29:48 +0100 From: "Nic Henderson" <nic.henderson@ntlworld.com> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Introduction and Argos Racing Cycles Message-ID: <001101c47987$dbce4210$0100a8c0@nicxgvy35gwhj9> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 12

Hi ! Nic Henderson here, CR list lurker extraordinaire. I've managed to = pluck up the courage to come out of the closet so here's bit about = myself. Living here in South Wales in the U.K I'm a big fan of anything = to do with old bikes (and even new ones! oops) My particular favourites = are F.W. Evans, of which I am not an expert but have quite a few photos = of and also, Wester Ross Cycles,(of which I am an expert !) a little = know company originally based in Scotland but later moved to Yorkshire, = that stopped producing in early 1984. Both of these can be seen on my = website http://www.bikebrothers.co.uk Other than that anything with ornate = lugs, shiny chrome and colourful paintwork is my cup of tea! Anyway = that's enough about me there's a pictorial visit to Argos Racing Cycles = amongst others here:-

http://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/visits.htm=20

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Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 19:33:58 +0100 From: "Nic Henderson" <nic.henderson@ntlworld.com> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]1st mistake ! Message-ID: <002a01c47988$707eae40$0100a8c0@nicxgvy35gwhj9> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 13

Didn't sign out properly !

Nic Henderson Newport, South Wales U.K.

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Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:36:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Donald Gillies <gillies@cs.ubc.ca> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Stronglight 122 bcd chainrings ?? Message-ID: <200408031836.LAA12418@cascade.cs.ubc.ca> Precedence: list Message: 14

As a new Stronglight 93 crankset owner, I have been looking around for the purposes of laying in provisions for the long, cold, parts-shortage winter arrives. I have found the following sources for NEW/NOS 122 bcd chainrings :

NOS stronglight rings (38-52T) :

http://www.harriscyclery.com http://www.withingtoncycles.co.uk

Custom chainrings :

http://www.highpath.co.uk/cycles/products/egg01.html

However, Sheldon Brown doesn't know if his stronglight rings are 93-pattern, and malc cowle at withington cycles says his definitely are not - they look more like super record chainrings. I presume that Sheldon and Malc are getting rings from the same source.

So I have two questions :

(a) Have I missed any (non-ebay, non-CR-list) sources for 122 bcd rings ?? In particular, who else (Jim Merz?) will do a run of custom chainrings, and how many are necessary to make it worthwhile?

(b) At some small tooth count, e.g. 38-44, maybe, I figure that even campy lookalike rings and stronglight 93 rings will be nearly identical because the aluminum must support the teeth and run between the bolt holes. At what tooth count do the new rings match or almost match the old ones ??

- Don Gillies San Diego, CA ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 14:42:59 -0400 From: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Introduction and Argos Racing Cycles Message-ID: <20040803.144259.2900.41.richardsachs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 15

snipped: "Nic Henderson" <nic.henderson@ntlworld.com> writes:
> Hi ! Nic Henderson here, CR list lurker extraordinaire. I've managed
> to pluck up the courage to come out of the closet so here's bit
> about myself.

welcome. now - who are these: http://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/bikeshow04_files/12.jpg tell all... e-RICHIERTC Richard M Sachs Chester, CT site: http://www.richardsachs.com pics: http://photos.yahoo.com/bobbesrs rants: http://richardsachs.blogspot.com/ zany: http://tinyurl.com/22xo7

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Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 14:48:50 EDT From: Philcycles@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Stronglight 122 bcd chainrings ?? Message-ID: <bb.4333dccb.2e413812@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 16

In a message dated 8/3/04 11:42:57 AM, gillies@cs.ubc.ca writes:
>(a) Have I missed any (non-ebay, non-CR-list) sources for 122 bcd
> rings ?? In particular, who else (Jim Merz?) will do a run of
> custom chainrings, and how many are necessary to make it worthwhile?
>

Try American Cyclery in San frncisco. Phil Brown Just there yesterday having driven in from San Rafael, Calif. ------------------------------

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End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 20, Issue 12 *************************************************