FW: RE: [CR]Mixed Tubing Bikes hard to identify

(Example: Framebuilders:Alex Singer)

From: "nick zatezalo" <nickzz@mindspring.com>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: FW: RE: [CR]Mixed Tubing Bikes hard to identify
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:34:24 -0400

The February 1996 Bicycle Guide had an article about comparing 7 styles of Columbus steel tubing. None of the frames had tubing stickers or designations of any kind. The bikes were identical in geometry, components, and size, but were made from different styles of Columbus pipes. The frames were all made by the hands of Antonio Mondonico. Materials tested were EL-OS, Neuron, SLX, Brain, Thron, Cromor, & Aelle. The conclusion reached in the article was that the differences were very subtle and inconclusive.

The final statement of the article was as follows: "Perhaps more than anything, they illustrate that the personality of a bike is determined much more by the fit, frame geometry and the components than by what kind of tubing lies under the paint."

e-RICHIE is quoted with the now familiar saw: "When someone is buying a bike from me, they're buying my design choices and my construction skills. I actually think material is the least consequential choice."

Pipes don't make the bike! What the framebuilder does with the pipes MAKES the bike.

Nick Zatezalo Atlanta,Ga

> [Original Message]
> From: r cielec <teaat4p@yahoo.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Date: 8/27/2004 7:17:53 PM
> Subject: RE: [CR]Mixed Tubing Bikes hard to identify
> Mike:
> Do you recall the tubing guages?
> Gauge is among the specs I hoped my inquiry would evoke.
> Regards,
> Richard Cielec
> Chicago, Illinois
> hersefan@comcast.net wrote:
> It is a fun idea to try to identify tubing and resulting ride characteristics, but it is very tricky. The problem is that builders often think of tubing in terms of guage instead of model designation. Thus a frame with Reynolds 531 but with a couple of Columbus tubes - well what guage Columbus tubes were used?
> The main issue is that tube guage and butting profiles (and shape of chainstays) are significant, but brand of tubing is virtually irrelevent - by and large, steel is steel.
> Now, it would be a great project to identify ride charactersics and tube guage, but it is very difficult to find frames with identical geometry and known differences in tube guage (I bet some list members know some examples though!)
> In the one case where I did make a comparison, I had three identical Waterford frames except I ordered different tube guages for downtube and chainstays. The differences, especially when heavy chainstays were used, were very easy to feel when riding.
> Mike Kone in Boulder CO
> -------------- Original message --------------
> > Richard Cielec wrote, in part:
> > >>>>I am generally aware that bicycles were constructed of mixed tubing
> > to acheive particular ride characteristics. And, some of these "mixed"
> > bicycles offer excellent rides.
> > May I ask those who know the tubing mix of their bikes if they would
> > offer comment - what tubes, year, make, model of bike, how the bike
> > rides, etc..?<<<<
> >
> > I have a copy of the original build sheet for my Stan Pike, which was
> > built in '83. Even though the frame sports a Reynolds 531SL red label,
> > the frame is made up of various types of tubes, all identified on the
> > sheet. The mix is as follows:
> >
> > Reynolds 531 - top tube, seat tube, head tube
> > Super Vitus - down tube, seat and chain stays
> > Columbus - forks
> >
> > I believe it was quite common for builders of the era, particularly
> > small-output builders, to mix tubes based on what their vision of the
> > frame was. (Or maybe they were just using what was lying around the
> > shop.)
> >
> > My Pike is quite light, considering weight was not a consideration at
> > the time. It's built with a mix of various components. Gipiemme/Modolo
> > (crankset/seatpost/brakes), N-Rec (shifters/derailleurs), Record
> > (hubs/BB), Galli (rims), 3ttt (stem/bars), Edco (headset). I haven't
> > really weighed the frame. Maybe someday. It's a great riding bike, one
> > of my favorites, but I haven't put thousands of miles on it either.
> > I've ridden it with two different wheelsets, the Rec/Galli 15g 32 spoke
> > 3x set mentioned above, with UFO tubulars, and with Rec/Sun 15/16g
> > butted 32 spoke 2x front 3x rear with Michelin somethingorothers.
> > However, the wheelset probably has more to do with the "feel" of a bike
> > than the tubes used. At least IMO.
> >
> > Wayne Bingham
> > Montevideo Uruguay (temporarily)
> > _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
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