RE: [CR]NOW: Value WAS: Original run Carlsbad Masi

(Example: History:Ted Ernst)

From: "Dave Patrick" <patrick@aardvark-pro.com>
To: <richardsachs@juno.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: RE: [CR]NOW: Value WAS: Original run Carlsbad Masi
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 13:44:10 -0700
In-Reply-To: <20040907.101730.10767.556124@webmail04.nyc.untd.com>


Richard,

On that note then, what would you have happen to this Masi frame? No tube replacement but perhaps a repaint? Or is this Masi not worthy of a restoration, in your eyes?

I thought the Cremonese builders made violins, not fiddles.

Dave Patrick Chelsea, Michigan

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of richardsachs@juno.com Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 10:17 AM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]NOW: Value WAS: Original run Carlsbad Masi

snipped: "I think once you mess with the integrity of that - you've lost authenticity."

that's where i stand too. otoh, because i undertook two restorations, repainting, imo, is okay - especially when there's not much left of the original finish. but re-brazing, cold-setting, adding/removing braze-ons... these things cry "foul" to me, perhaps not to others. as a sidebar - i can't for the life of me understand why the famed cremonese fiddle maker's remaining works are so costly. the ones that are played have had SO MANY parts replaced in the hundreds of years since their manufacuture that i wonder what is really left. on an old bicycle, replacing moving parts is often necessary; but if you rebuild over half of the frame,
what is left?!
e-RICHIE
chester, ct


-- greg arnold wrote:


Richie Wrote:

>on the coat tails of the recent thread, i am interested to
> hear what folks think about this. if this frame or one as rare
> as this is re-tubed owing to an accident, how is the value/
> mojo/provenance affected? the same question goes for the
> fork if a new steerer is installed.
>
> if you're a masi-phile or just a CR sycophant, where are
> your bounderies on this issue?

Hmmm... As a vintage car as well as a vintage bike lover - I cringe at the thought of just a re-paint. I'm a big believer in originality and 'patina', though crinkly, half-vanished decals, chipped paint, dings, and rust-through eventually (obviously) destroy the charm of an original bike ...

Many vintage cars I have owned have had panels replaced or re-hammered - but I have never replaced a chassis or parts thereof with new steel. Its too integral a part of the ride - I would never buy a car needing that kind of repair. Regarding bikes - tubes are similarly integral. A month ago I struggled over returning rear chainstays to their original spread (with lots of opinion and help from the CR listers). Finally I had it done 'professionally' and with great success - and its no biggy, but the idea that I might mess with the stiffness or 'ride' of a fabulous frame tormented me! (ok - I had some spare time for frivolous bike torment last month)

Generally there is so little to distinguish a great frame builders work (ala Richie) except the lugwork and corresponding tubes and their mysterious angles/ride relationships. I think once you mess with the integrity of that - you've lost authenticity. That being said - I'd love a "Masi ala Richie" in my stable any day. Even if I had to wait three years for the tube replacement. But I donĀ¹t think Richie is going to restore a Masi for any of us anytime soon! ... By the way - its all IMO of course :-)

Cheers
Greg arnold nyc