Re: [CR]Was: measuring ugliness. Now. "What's On Topic?"

(Example: Production Builders:Cinelli:Laser)

Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:20:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [CR]Was: measuring ugliness. Now. "What's On Topic?"
To: OROBOYZ@aol.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
In-Reply-To: <9.36c3655e.2ec38538@aol.com>


Well, these bikes do represent a contradiction. On the one hand they are interesting and collectable because they were trend-setting designs, while on the other hand, the trends they set in motions are often those which we deplore having become so dominant today. I have a Teledyne, a Graftek, ALAN's and Vitus's and would gladly buy an early Klein. I think there are two things which make a bike special - innovative design and superbe craftmanship. Unfortunately, an innovative design often reduces the need for or opportinity for craftsmanship, and in some cases the reduced need for craftsmanship is even a major design objective.

I think you, as omnipotent Listmeister, have to some extent addressed this dilemma in the way the Keepers of the Flame are defined. A brand new lugged steel Sachs or Baylis or Rivendell is On Topic, while a new TIGed frame is not, even if it was made by Bruce Gordon or Albert Eisentraut.

Regards,

Jerry Moos Houston, TX

OROBOYZ@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/10/2004 9:27:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net writes:

<< Was the Teledyne Titan TIG welded? What about the original Klein road bikes? The Teledyne is certainly On Topic, and I'm pretty sure the original Kleins are as well. >>

Thanks (Not!) Jerry old buddy for reminding me of the "problem" areas in this forum (and on the web site.)

Certainly the original Ti bikes and early welded aluminum bikes fit the time zone but yet not the aesthetic guidelines. What to do? My initial reaction is to include the extinct stuff (for that very reason) and avoid the stuff that shoved the bikes I like the out the door! Certainly I have a distinct tendency to always exclude welded bikes, bonded bikes and non ferrous bikes of all sorts. To be most appropriate to the CR site or list, bikes should hopefully exhibit those unique factors I talked about in my last post, i.e., a character that reflects the hand of a particular human maker, unique design statements that reflect an aesthetic approach or high level of craft, a statement of sorts that blends the function with art, stuff that came & went away in a blink-of-the-eye, etc., yada yada. Heck, most of you know exactly what I am talking about. That's why the Cirque du Cyclisme and the Velo Rendezvous are love fests!

Dale Brown
Greensboro, NC