Re: [CR]Fw: $4000 Masi--2 more cents

(Example: Framebuilding:Tubing:Falck)

From: <"richardsachs@juno.com">
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 01:07:43 GMT
To: chasds@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: [CR]Fw: $4000 Masi--2 more cents
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

e-RICHIE piling on... i think the aesthetic fork in the road was when the calimasis began to use cinelli mr crowns and various available-to-the-industry braze ons and chainstay/fork blade shapes. i don't go to the same lenghths as chas re the cast lug issue on at least the earliest transition era frames because those frames were made while masi (iti and cal...) was still at the vanguard and still an apple not yet fallen from the tree. i'd say that by 77 it was over. in america, it was just a branded frame trading on earlier generational palmares.

we've beat this to death - so see the archives to read more and/or to see my point of view. heck - most of it is in my blog: http://richardsachs.blogspot.com/
e-RICHIE
chester, ct


-- "C. Andrews" wrote:


Oh, one other thing that's a big deal to me but may mean nothing to anyone else: sometime in the late 70s or early 80s the fork bend in Masi GCs changed. For the worse from an aesthetic point-of-view, although I make no claims as to the relative handling of the old bend compared to the new.

The classic Masi fork-bend was a thing of beauty, about the most beautiful looking forks I have yet to see, other than maybe on an old Pogliaghi, which had a similar bend. The arc of the bend starts right at the fork-crown, and curves down very gracefully to the drop-outs...the 60s/70s Masis had forks that were/are just exquisite. That was gone by the 80s, replaced by what looks to me like a more conventional fork-bend that is not nearly as pretty, although it might be more functional for some.

Charles "appreciates useless beauty" Andrews SoCal


----- Original Message -----
From: "C. Andrews"
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 5:22 PM
Subject: re: $4000 Masi--2 more cents


> --- Matthew Gorski <bikenut@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > I'm with Charles and Jay here-
> >
> > Italian or early Carlsbad examples are it...Period.
> > Even Eisentrout and
> > Lippy built Masi's are well into the twilight of the
> > Carlsbad days.....
> > Once you get to the San Marcos GC's you have, as
> > Maxwell Smart would
> > say,
> > "missed by that much!"
>
> Missed WHAT "by that much?"
>
> Joe Starck
> Madison, Wisconsin
>
> **********
>
> Joe asks a fair question, and at the risk of evoking in the
> group the feeling of wanting to throw rotten vegetables, or
> worse, in my direction, for prolonging this thread beyond
> all reason..I'll say this much: for some of us (and I say
> that deliberately, I have no intention whatever of speaking
> for anyone other than myself and a few like-minded souls I
> know, or know of), the cast-lug Masis just do not have the
> same mojo as the pressed lug Masis.
>
> I've owned, and ridden, a few cast-lug Masis, one from the
> early 80s--Joe might even have built it, I don't know for
> sure when it was made--both rode nicely, although the
> geometry of those later frames seems somewhat different from
> the 70s vintage frames...I've never been able to figure out
> when the geometry changed, if it did..the difference may be
> in my head, I never measured to make sure.
>
> But, besides some change in the geometry of the 80s frames
> to make them a little quicker-handling--those cast-lug
> frames, and all others I've seen, just did not have the same
> charm for me as the pressed-lug frames. The pressed lug
> frames, at their best, appear more delicate because of all
> the hand-work on the lugs, and the overall feeling of a
> hand-made, one-off frame makes a mojo in the Italian and
> Carlsbad Masis that the later cast-lug frames, for all their
> tidiness, cannot match.
>
> And the geometry of the older Masis gave them a plusher
> ride. The old geometry persisted in the cast-lug frames for
> awhile..how long I don't know, though.
>
> It's the sheer, hand-wrought charm of the pressed-lug Masis
> that makes them a pleasure to own, ride, and admire.
>
> Like I say, that's just me. Purely a matter of personal
> taste.
>
> Charles Andrews
> SoCal
>
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
>
> Concerning Carlos Kleiber
> one of the greatest of all
> post-war conductors:
>
> The glamour often associated with a
> conductor's life held no appeal for him;
> he preferred to stay at home in Munich.
> He once told Leonard Bernstein:
> "I want to grow in a garden.
> I want to have the sun. I want to eat
> and drink and sleep and make love and
> that's it."