Re: [CR]New Bicycling Issue NOW Women in a Grand Tour

(Example: Production Builders:Cinelli)

From: "Angel Garcia" <>
To: <>
References: <>
Subject: Re: [CR]New Bicycling Issue NOW Women in a Grand Tour
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 23:20:53 -0500

Jan, did you cover the woman that rode in the Giro d' Italia? 1910s or 20s. The details are buried somewhere in my PC. Have any other women participated in a grand tour? Angel Garcia Long Valley, NJ
> I guess after the Autumn 2004 issue of Vintage Bicycle Quarterly was
> dedicated to women in cycling, Bicycling had to do one better! (Not
> that I know of any Bicycling staff reading VBQ...)
> --
> Jan Heine, Seattle
> Editor/Publisher
> Vintage Bicycle Quarterly
> c/o Il Vecchio Bicycles
> 140 Lakeside Ave, Ste. C
> Seattle WA 98122

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [CR]eBay outing - 1972 Colnago Super

> Angel and Ray, etc.,
> I think the frame pictured is 1974. The engraved parts (chainring, seat post, stem) are correct for a 1972 Colnago. The paint is original. A few key ways to tell 1972 from 1974.
> Fork crown. '72 was the first year for engraved club on top of crown AND the two small holes in each side are still there. ('70 and '71 have only the two small holes). In '73 the small holes disappear. Fork tangs vary a little, but in '72 there are either no holes in the tang or two holes.
> Lugs. In '74 Colnago changed from having the club in all three lugs to just having a cutout in the bottom head lug. The bike pictured has only one lug cutout.
> Paint. Frequently the '72 Colnagos have a contrasting panel on the seat tube. Maybe not always, but the few I've seen so far all have.
> The bike shown shows no small holes in the crown and has only one cutout and no seat tube panel. That's '74 in my book. I have a '70, '72, and a '74 in my collection and I've seen lots of others. I feel my ability to date the early ones is equal to anyone else with a keen interest in early Colnagos. '74 is my opinion. A VERY nice bike, regardless of a slight variation of year. Made just before "all hell broke loose" at Colnago.
> The numbers stamped in the dropouts ARE NOT serial numbers. More like batch numbers, vendor (subcontractor) number, or possibly numbers that indicate for whome the run is made, as in for Velo Sport, or for some other distributor or buyer. It would be interesting for someone to ask Ernesto directly what those numbers on the early frames actually mean.
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
> -- "Angel Garcia" <> wrote:
> I have a nearly identical Colnago. Mine was purchased in Germany in January,
> 1976. Of course, it's not known how long it was in the window at the time of
> purchase but Colnago analyzed photos I sent them and they thought it was a
> 1973 or 1974. Mine is an unbuilt frame and fork in Molteni orange; even the
> same size as Ray's. These are some of the identical, and different features,
> I noted between mine and Ray Robbins:
> 1) headtube and seat tube decals are same (mine are black with a yet lighter
> orange outline) as are the lugs
> 2) the world championship bands are the same
> 3) my Columbus decal is different; it says Tubi Rinforzati Garantiti on one
> line above the red oval; Acciao Speciali with oval in between those words;
> the word Columbus below the oval. It's style appears to me to be more modern
> than that of Ray's bike.
> 4) The shape of the bottom of the club on my downtube lug is exactly the
> same shape is that of the ones on the fork; it has a slight curvature
> (downward). On Ray's, that lug has a straight bottom (which is different
> from the fork). Perhaps this is just an inconsistency in the creation rather
> than an indication of year.
> 5) Mine has clubs in the fork tangs (did not see a photo of Ray's in this
> area)
> 6) Mine has the #16. In the past I have discussed these numbers with
> e-richie and he didn't think they were a serial number. What do they mean?
> Angel Garcia
> Long Valley, NJ
> snip
> > >Additionally, I would have thought that a 72 would have had a clover
> cut-out
> > >in the top head-lug, along with two small dots either side of the fork
> crown.
> > >All of that may well be answered simply by referring to Colnago's famous
> > >inconsistency.
> >
> > Yes, I agree. Frame details seem inconsistent with my limited
> > experience with 1972 Supers.
> > I own a 1972 and have sold a 1972 frame that was too large for me,
> > and in both cases, it did have clover cut outs on the headtube and
> > downtube lugs, as well as the two dots on each side of the outside
> > fork crown. So...I'd venture to say this is a 1973 or 74. Just my
> > very humble opinion.
> > Charles Andrews - what you say?
> >
> > -Dan Borden in Brookline, MA
> snip
> >
> > The seat-tube-badge decal is interesting. It appears to be one
> > of those reverse-image graphics that Brian Baylis has mentioned
> > a couple of times. The outline is supposed to be black, but the decal
> > may have been applied on the wrong side, or the decal itself was
> > printed incorrectly. Nothing wrong with that at all, actually adds to
> > the coolness factor, imho.
> >
> > I'll be curious to see how this auction goes.
> >
> > Charles "really, really, really glad it's too big for me" Andrews
> > SoCal