CR Effect on Prices, was RE: [CR]Irish Masis

(Example: Framebuilding:Brazing Technique)

In-Reply-To: <>
From: "Thomas R. Adams, Jr." <>
Subject: CR Effect on Prices, was RE: [CR]Irish Masis
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 01:06:20 +0000

Speaking of the effect of the CR list on the relative value of bikes, are there any examples of bike brands that have risen in value since they were featured on the CR list? I don't know if we are a majority of the classic vintage market, but surely we are a significant percentage. So have prices for certain obscure bikes risen since being mentioned on the CR list?

For a test subject, what has the market for Flying Scots done say in the last year? I had never heard on the brand before joining the list, but thanks to many favorable mentions on the list lauding their qualities, plus B. Baylis's stunning machine shown at the '03 Velo Rendezvous, I know I'd want one. I'd speculate that the Flying Scot futures are up. Any empirical data?

Tom (Waitin for a 62 cm F. Scot) Adams, Shrewsbury NJ

>To: (Classic Rendezvous)
>Subject: [CR]Irish Masis
>Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 17:45:30 +0000
>Tom wrote: "If Masis had been made in Ireland, instead of Carlsbad, and if they were EXACTLY the same as those we see from Carlsbad, they would be less sought after."
>I don't believe that the place of production was as important as the fact that Masi was likely the brand that best embodied both 'boutique' prestige recognition with a readily demonstrated, advertised and known race palmar├Ęs. The Masi production was limited like all 'boutique' brands which guaranteed it prestige and appeal in the eyes of most reasonably informed cycling devotees who came to hear of it. They also had the added status of being the 'boutique' brand with the greatest marketing of its race proven results. These elements made them drool-worthy to a wide cross-section of American cyclists. Many people, mostly teenagers, spent a great part of the 70's dreaming about eventually owning one of them. These are the people who are now paying comparatively big dollars for these bikes. Let's face it, most collectors are attracted to the things they know well or always wanted to know in their youth. The fact that the Masi were built in the US was only relevant in that it allowed them to be sold at more appealing conditions and price (no import duties, quicker delivery, easier communication...) which in turn put them in front of a larger group of people.
>This also explains why bikes such as the top end bikes from Raleigh, Peugeot and Paramount still have a greater comparative collectors' appeal, notwithstanding the fact that they are objectively speaking 'lesser' bikes from the point of view of racing palmar├Ęs, workmanship and outright prestige. It is impossible for your average person to dream of collecting the 'better' products of any of the numerous lesser known framebuilding masters, whether they be Italian, British, French or other, when they don't even know them.
>In Italy, like in Japan or here in the US, Masi bikes do hold an added value over similar 'quality' bikes from lesser-known builders, the sole difference is extent of the comparative added value. In Italy, the added value is perhaps 10-20% whereas here in the US the added value is likely closer to 100%. It is my guess that as more people become knowledgeable about other builders, more interest and relative added value will be achieved by these builders. This is one of the great contributions of the CR list: namely that of propogating the names and reputation of good builders from all over the world. Mick Butler's many great posts have highlighted many of the lesser-known British builders. Similar builders obviously existed in other places too.
>Steven Maasland
>Moorestown, NJ

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