This whole idea makes me shudder.
Its like lining a group of great people up and asking to judge who is the best person. They're all different - that's what's great about people and bikes. Enjoy it, celebrate it, don't judge it. Each one of these builders has created an identity of there own that doesn't need to be judged against others. When you're talking about the best builders in the world - what's to be gained. It's not like there are any rookies in the group who don't know what they're doing.
What's the best flower, music, food, culture, etc............. Wait, isn't McDonald's the best - they've been the most successful at selling the most stuff. How would you judge? What framebuilder has the best PR dept, tells the best jokes, .... This all sounds like very bad entertainment. Maybe this could be handled like a survival elimination event somehow.
As BB said - its about the people - that's why we get together.
Roman Stankus Creeped out in Atlanta, Ga.
-----Original Message----- From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org] On Behalf Of r garni Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:58 AM To: email@example.com Cc: M4Campy@aol.com; firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: [CR]KOF Build-Off?/Bake-Off
I can completely understand that ... sort of like "rule by committee" vs. classical music: I doubt that Ravel asked a group of composers to help him out with his string quartets.
Still, I kind of like the idea, particularly when you have sympathetic vibrationsdare I saygood ones? (Hey, you brought up the 60's, not me.) There would have to be a commander, a conductor, what have you, to design the guiding principle, but isn't always interesting to see what happens when others contribute to such situations? I mean, regardless, it would have to have a single guiding hand, I agree. Still, there is Ravel, and there is, on the other hand, the Beatles. Something about ideas flying around among the talented is always interesting.
The notion is not very practical, very problematic, too romantic and obviously stated by someone who trembles with fear and hides when he sees real work being done on a bicycle. Still...
Ricky Garni Carrboro, NC
--- "email@example.com" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> The one frame from many idea has been brought up
> sort of in the past. As I recall Peter Weigle was
> keen on the idea; but my opinion is that a frame
> like that would probably more likely look like a
> mongrel than a masterpiece. Reason being, in my
> opinion, that an exceptional frame get that way
> through a perfect balance of function, design,
> exicution, and character; and in that order.
> Needless to say, a frame like that would look
> differently in every case where each person did
> different parts of the work. Interesting thought,
> but again, a waste of valuable time from my
> Not meaning to bust anyone's fantasy; but reality is
> out there every day with it's foot out, waiting for
> me to trip over it.
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
> "Reality is for people who can't handle drugs", or
> so they used to say in the 60's.
> -- r garni <email@example.com> wrote:
> Because I used to be aligned to the Poetry World, I
> have to admit that I have very mixed feelings about
> poetry slams, build-offs, or geez, even bake offs.
> I do love the possibilities, however, of the
> possibilities of collective talent united. I would
> more interested in seeing a model that could be
> conceived by the industry of a collective talent of
> KOF; one frame from many. Or would that be a matter
> two many chefs...?
> Ricky Garni
> Carrboro, NC
> --- Joe Starck <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
> > --- M4Campy@aol.com wrote:
> > > > Mike Appel(who in my estimation is one of the
> > best
> > > craftsmen in
> > > framebuilding, maybe
> > > > even THE best, if such a contest could be
> > devised
> > >
> > > Wow. After watching several Motorcycle
> > on
> > > the Discovery Channel I
> > > think it would be awesome to see some of the
> > > Keepers of the Flame square
> > > off. I wonder how many would be interested in
> > > participating? Dale, you
> > > could host the contest at the 2006 Cirque!!!
> > >
> > > The contest would be audience judged and the
> > winner
> > > would get the first KOF
> > > trophy! I can
> > > see it now. Sachs, Baylis, Johnson, Gordon,
> > > Eisentraut, Stark, Goodrich,
> > > Kirk, Moon, etc!
> > >
> > Nice list Mike. A bit short(Appel, Erickson,
> > Weigle, Bob Brown and a few dozen more would be my
> > additional nominees)and you'd honestly have to
> > remove
> > that "Starck" guy, since he's no longer building,
> > probably never will again, and more importantly,
> > never
> > made a living selling his own frames, just made
> > others, but since he is me, I'll nominate myself
> > qualified judge here of your short list, and by my
> > own
> > criteria of framebuilding and nothing else, allow
> > for
> > Mr. David Kirk to hold that trophy in Montana for
> > least the first year. Discovery Channel to
> > Joe Starck,
> > masidon, wi
> > > Watcha think Dale?
> > >
> > > Mike "Did Trek use any washing machine parts on
> > > their early bicycles?"
> > > Wilkinson
> > > Castle Rock, CO
> > >
> > >