Re: [CR]Re: Help with Hobbs now Claud Butler

(Example: Framebuilders:Cecil Behringer)

Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 02:57:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <>
Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Help with Hobbs now Claud Butler
In-Reply-To: <>

I think, as Chuck said, it's a matter of Americans not knowing much about Claud Butler. Which gives me the perfect opening to repost some questons about my 1950 CB to which no one responded last time:

I've gotten the HS back together on the 1950 Claud Butler (Allrounder or Avant Coureur, we still aren't sure which) after pulling the fork to find the serial #. Only lost two 5/32 ball bearings in the process. The HS is marked Brampton inside the top cup. As I mentione earlier, the pressed cups aren't really pressed, but slide easily into the HT. Also, the bottom fixed cup has wrench flats, which you don't see on modern HS's. Was it standard in the 50's for HS cups to slide into the HT rather than the pressed fit used today? Also, the nearest metric sizes for the wrench flats seem to be 42 mm for the cups and 34 mm for the locknout. Does anyone sell HS wrenches in these sizes?

To compensate for the very long CB top tube, I'm replacing the 95 mm GB stem (like appeared on 70's Raleigh Grand Prix, exposed quill binder head) with a much shorter HInduminium stem, with a squarish cross section. I think these were also made by GB, although it doesn't seem to be marked GB. Is the Hinduminium stem correct for 1950, or at least no more incorrect than the more generic GB?

Finally what was the range of chainrings available for the old circa 1950 cottered steel cranks? The CB has a French-made Duprax. Like most of the three arm cottered cranks, it has a fairly small circle, probably no more than 100 mm, and the arms bolt to three curved pieces which carry the chainrings In this case, the curved carriers are part of the large chainring. The small ring bolts to the back of the large one, and the mounting holes in the large ring are positioned such that you can't get more than a couple of teeth difference between rings. This crank has 50-49 or maybe 51-49, which isn't particularly useful if you encounter any hills at all.

This is my first real venture into early 50's good quality cottered cranks. Were the bolt circles fairly standard so that you could use chainrings of a different brand than the arms? Was it possible to get a 38T small ring? Did some rings allow a wider spread between large and small ring? How large a spread would the old suicide lever FD's handle?


Jerry Moos wrote:My limited experience is that people in the United States do not appreciate the Claud Butler marque the way people in the UK do. All my English friends (now in their 50s and 60s) tell me that they wanted a Claud Butler bike when they were growing up. No American ever told me that. Happy Holidays and Safe Biking to all. Cliff C.J. Scheiner Brooklyn, NY USA ********************************* Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 20:29:18 -0000 From: "Norris Lockley" Subject: [CR]Help with Hobbs

In a similar vein.. I wondered why no on bid on the 23" Claude Butler Avant Coureur that finished its auction this morning with an winning bid of A350 for frame and fork. Are Claudes not popular in the States?