Re: [CR]re: ebay outing: gios super record..sad

(Example: Framebuilders:Doug Fattic)

From: <"">
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 07:17:42 GMT
Subject: Re: [CR]re: ebay outing: gios super record..sad


Most of the outrage came from my statements about fitting new components to older frames. I really don't like to see frames modernized by spreading rear triangles and such. I spend all day almost every day putting old frames back the way they were and undoing damage from braze-ons, bad plating jobs, and other kinds of abuse. Sure, it keeps me busy, but I'd rather not see it. I think there are plenty of affordable lugged steel frames out there that were built for modern components. As a matter of fact, I'm planning to buy a low end Bianchi with Shimano 105 components as soon as it clears the police term for used bikes. I'm going to ride it as is. I'm buying it because I like the Celeste handlebar tape, green tires, and celeste cable housing. Not bike snob behavior at all. Modernize your Masi or whatever. But as the bike gets older I feel less supportive. Like the Masi special I saw fitted with full braze-ons including cantilever brakes, painted pearl white, and incorrect decals. Really a shame to see that happen to that bike.

I guess a lot of people are sensitive to having a preference for keeping the older bikes sort of period correct. It seems that that would be the point of vintage bikes. If you like modern components why not get a modern bike. They are really cheap, often much cheaper than a "classic" frame, especially if you buy the whole bike. Like the Bianchi I'm after. $250 for the whole bike. Ready to go.

I will be looking for a celeste saddle to go with it. I'm sure after all the ememies I just made, no one will be making me any offers. Oh well. I probably have one or two friends left who don't hate me for the bike snob that I am; maybe they will help a brother out. After I show up on the cheap CroMor tubing Shimano 105 equipt el crapo, I may lose them also!

Brian Baylis
La Mesa, CA

-- wrote:

At 12/29/2004 9:22:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, Mount Baylis erupted, raining hot lava over all of southern California:
> I do not understand those who ride vintage frames outfitted with modern components. I hear all of the reasons, excuses, and rational. Still makes me heartsick.
>There are two sides of the fence. I'm standing over HERE. If you're on the other side of the fence, I'd prefer not to know you; or at least don't let me find out you're not on my side. I have a strong distaste for what I believe there is no excuse for, that is not based in selfishness and/or greed and a basic disrespect for what a vintage bike is all about.

Brian, I truly respect your opinion and for the most part I agree with you, but I do believe there are some unaddressed shades of gray here.

I am one of those folks who feels sadness and anger when I see a clean all-original classic parted out. I am one of those folks who loves the ride of steel and the visual appeal of a lugged frame. But I am also one of those folks who loves new components, at least on my everyday rider... I say this without shame or fear, knowing full well the outrage such a statement might provoke in these hallowed halls (can an email list have halls?).

What is one to do in such a case, when a modern steel frame by a KOF is beyond one's means? Many of us can't afford a modern Sachs or Weigle, others can't even afford a more modestly priced Waterford or one of Rivendell's imports.

What if what we CAN afford is a used vintage frame? Say a late '80's San Marcos Masi in my case (out of the CR timeline maybe, but still a vintage frame. Granted, maybe it's no Sachs or Weigle, but then again it sure suits my temperament a whole lot better than Carbon or Aluminum). Is it so upsetting to outfit such a frame with new components and ride it lovingly and often? Is Joe Starck gunning for me because of my sacrilege?

Now I would be the first to cry bloody murder if somebody took an old late 60's Cinelli and tried to hot rod it with new gear (even if that same 60's Cinelli had already been hot rodded with early 70's gear by its original owner). It's just not right.

On the other hand, surely it is possible to adapt a later classic to more modern equipment (much as the aforementioned Cinelli's orignal owner saw fit to do, back in the day) without risking eternal damnation.

Bob Hovey
Columbus, GA