[CR]Schwinn Paramounts & eyelets on dropouts

Example: Framebuilders
From: "Raoul Delmare" <Raoul.L.Delmare@worldnet.att.net>
To: "C.R. List" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, <RDF1249@aol.com>, "Bruce C." <BruceCumberland@comcast.net>, <Carb7008@cs.com>
References: <7F22B173.7A74BD18.001793E8@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 20:07:28 -0600
Subject: [CR]Schwinn Paramounts & eyelets on dropouts

Hi Jack , Hi Bob ,

The thing about the Schwinn Paramount model numbers is , they shift over time . A model number can easily mean one thing for years , and then be re-used later , to mean something else .

Example , the P12 .

Also , the Waterford site is the BEST place for information about Schwinn Paramount serial numbers . However , the Waterford site does include mistakes about the model numbers .


For the best information about Schwinn Paramount model numbers , sift through the information on the "Data Book" web site ( Thanks Bob Hufford , Thanks Eric Amlie ) . The only limit on this site is that it only covers 1960 - 1979 .


Now , about those darned EYELETS !!!!!!

I was one of the MANY people who thought they knew the story . Like so very many people , I thought eyelets meant "Touring" , and lack of eyelets meant the P13 "Road Racer" ( also called "Road Racing" in some years ) .

NOT TRUE !!!!!!

The model P13 "Deluxe Paramount Road Racer" first appeared as a 1963 model .


It did not loose its eyelets until 1971 ( at least I'm almost positive it was 1971 ) !

At some point ( almost certain was beginning of 1971 model year ) , Schwinn introduced a newly re-designed P13 . And that year they called it the "Professional Road Racing Paramount" . Whenever the year was ( almost certainly 1971 ) , the P13 suddenly LOST its EYELETS !!

( if you look closely at the photo in the 1971 catalog , you can see that the brake cable housing was "re-touched" right out of the photo - probably because they needed to make the top tube stops disappear from that photo !! )

The full list of changes for the re-designed ( 1971 ) P13 was :

no eyelets on dropouts no cable-housing-stops , no cable-guides , on top tube very slightly shorter chainstays totally new fork rake , with new curve & less overall rake

So , there were several years when a P13 Deluxe Road Racer DID have eyelets !!!!!!

And when the NEW P13 frame-set was introduced , they just kept right on making the same older style frame-sets , and called them the P10 & P15 !!!!!!

( and I wish I'd known all of this sooner , I passed up a fabulous custom-made Paramount , made for the factory racing team , because it had "Touring" stops & guides brazed onto the top tube . . . what a fool I was to let that one get away ! )

( and you can't tell a bare P10 frame-set , from a bare P15 frame-set , but if you send Richard Schwinn a small fee , at Waterford , he can tell you which way your frame-set was originally built-up !! )

And the Campagnolo brakes were optional for a long time . Campagnolo brakes only became standard equipment on the P13 in 1978 .

And about the extra fancy pin striping , I have nothing to add to what Bob Freeman wrote . Thanks Bob !


Raoul Delmare
Marysville Kansas

----- Original Message -----
From: RDF1249@aol.com
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: [CR]Pinstripes, Paramounts and Misc.

> Jack - Earlier Paramounts had the extra pinstriping. I have a 1962 and 1965 with the striping on top tube and fork legs. No eyelets on the dropouts would be only a P-13. With eyelets could be a P-10, 12, or 15. Here is the rundown from the Waterford Velorotica site:
> P-10 - Deluxe Paramount - designed for non-competition road riding and included front and rear eyelets, 27 x 1 1/4" clincher tires and Weinmann center pull brakes. It usually came with Campagnolo Record components. You could order it with Campy side pulls and/or custom geometry as an option.
> P-11 - Paramount Tourist - designed for upright bars and recreational rides. It was available on a special order basis only. The ladies version was designated P61.
> P-12 - This was the old designator for the Paramount Racer - now becoming the P10.
> P-13 - Road Racing Paramount - designed for competition, this model came with tubulars and Campy sidepulls stock.
> P-14 - Track - Full Campy track components including wide flange hubs and tubular tired wheels.
> P-15 - Deluxe Paramount with 15 speeds (triple front chainrings). Start with the P-10 and add a wide gear range (generally a Shimano or Huret) long cage derailleur.




> Bob Freeman

> Seattle