Re: [CR]Dating PY-10s - was: Probably not a PY10/was Ebay Outing : Almost -New PY10


Example: Production Builders:Peugeot:PX-10LE

Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:44:31 +0200
From: Oscar Casander <oscar@oscarcasander.nl>
Subject: Re: [CR]Dating PY-10s - was: Probably not a PY10/was Ebay Outing : Almost -New PY10
In-reply-to: <2559EBC33D206649A9B8D445F2E856694BA0B2@dewdfe10.wdf.sap.corp>
To: "Feeken, Dirk" <dirk.feeken@sap.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org


Dirk Feeken wrote:
> you're right this is probably a PX 10/LE, or to be more precise a 1977
> PXN-10/LE. Except the PY-10 all Peugeots were also available with clincher
> tires as "N" models. The PXN-10 was also the only one available in silver (in
> Europe) while the PX-10 was only available in light blue that year.
> But the difference to the many, many PY-10 versions are not only the braced on
> brake studs. The PY-10 before 1978 had also normal Mafac brakes. Not all PY-10
> had Simplex Super LJs, there were also several versions with Delrin Simplex
> LJ4000 derailleurs.

The differences between the PY 10 and PX 10 were not always that obvious. The PY 10 was the made-to-order version of the PX 10 and could be ordered with or without options like brazed-on Mafac bosses, long point chromed lugs and 3/10 Reynolds tubing. So you could also order a PY 10 with the same specs as a standard PX 10. Looking at the Peugeot professional team bikes, as used in the Tour de France, it seems that in the late 70's the LJ4000 Delrin derailleurs were more popular than the metal SLJ5000's. In 1976 these first appeared on some of the bikes, while in 1977 all team bikes were LJ4000-equipped. 1976 was also the first year for the brazed-on Mafac brakes (but not on all bikes).
> Dating PY-10s seems to be an art or science of its own.
> Next week I will pick up a (probably 76) PY-10, I bought on eBay
> http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4122809059
> It has the gold anodized brakes and SLJ derailleurs of the special Thevenet
> model available after his fist TdF victory but not the chromed Nervex
> professional lugs that can be seen in the Peugeot catalog (not available on
> wanadoo.nl).

A PY 10 with these lugs is shown in the 1979 catalog (although I suspect the bike on the photo to be several years older): http://home.wanadoo.nl/peugeotshow/images/1979_7.jpg . These lugs have a lot in common with Nervex Professionals, but have much longer points. I own a 1977 frame that is built with these lugs and that was very easy to date: next to the frame number (stamped, not riveted) "77" was stamped into the bottom bracket.
> BTW: Were these parts really gold anodized on Thevenet's bike or has
> http://home.wanadoo.nl/peugeotshow/images/1976_1.jpg been colored later for
> marketing reasons?

I have many more photos of the 1975 Tour that show Thevenet's bike, always with the gold-colored parts. So there is no reason to believe that the catalogue photo has been touched up. But the sunlight in this particular picture sure helps to exaggerate the gold/silver contrast.

Considering the use of gold and other colors on Peugeot team bikes, here's a little timeline: 1973: white frame, white lugs, gold SLJ5000 derailleurs, silver (Racer) brakes. 1974: silver frame, silver lugs, gold SLJ5000 derailleurs, gold brakes. 1975: silver frame, chromed pointed lugs, gold SLJ5000 derailleurs, gold brakes. 1976: silver frame, silver lugs, silver SLJ5000 / LJ4000 derailleurs, silver brakes (some brazed-on). 1977: silver frame, silver lugs (no more chrome on forks), LJ4000 derailleurs, silver brazed-on brakes. 1978: still looking for good pictures.

Oscar Casander Arnhem, Holland http://home.wanadoo.nl/peugeotshow