RE: [CR] People in the Know Bi-Laminates

Example: Production Builders:Tonard

From: "Dennis Ryan" <>
To: <>
Subject: RE: [CR] People in the Know Bi-Laminates
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 10:26:47 -0400
In-Reply-To: <>

Not sure if anyone made this point since I've been staying on the fringes of this one, but it seems to me that it might be counterproductive to argue about the "exact" meaning of "bi-laminate"/"bilaminate" in any case. Is it meant to be a technical term, like "double-butted" or "investment-cast," or a marketing term, like "kromo" or "cantiflex" or "diadrant?" Such terms were popular in both US and UK industry at the time.

Just a thought, Dennis Ryan Louisville, KY

PS I remember an issue of "Punch" describing the devastating impact of the NZ side's debut in Britain and offering a humorous take on how they got their nickname, claiming the headlines at the time were saying "THEY ARE ALL BACKS." ;-)

And all the world over, each nation's the same They've simply no notion of "playing the game" They argue with umpires, they cheer when they've won And they practice beforehand, which ruins the fun

from "A Song of Patriotic Prejudice," by Flanders & Swann

-----Original Message----- From: []On Behalf Of Mick Butler Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 3:53 AM To: Subject: RE: [CR] People in the Know Bi-Laminates

Just a quickie on what is becoming a sore subject. Tom Board served his frame building apprenticeship with Harry Rensch at Paris Cycles also Ken Janes worked for this company. Rensch were the pioneers with Bi-Laminate frames (CB spelling). So I should think they would know what the true definition of a bilam is. If that's not good enough for our Kiwi cousins who are supposed to speak the same language perhaps the Oxford dictionary will help clear this one up. Laminate 1. Beat or roll (metal) into thin plates. 2.Overlay with metal plates. 3. Manufacture by placing layer on layer. 4. Split into layers or leaves. 5. A laminated structure or materials, esp. layers fixed together to form rigid or flexible material. Bi I always thought meant consisted of two. Biliningual being an example. Now if there was only one fork crown extension on your beloved Whirlwind or Hetchin's Magnum Opus that would clearly not be a Bi-laminate but I should hope there are a matching pair at least (2) so its a bilaminate and we hav'nt even started on the fancy brake bridges or extra add ons attached to the lugs. Please don't murder our language you do this to our Rugby team enough and will probably do it to our cricketers this Summer.

Best wishes and be lucky. Michael Butler Huntingdon UK.

>From: David Benson <>
>To: CR <>
>Subject: [CR]Bilaminate- changing definitions
>Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 10:19:04 +1000 (EST)
>It seems to me that we the meaning of 'bilaminate' has
>evolved over the years.
>As I see it, Claud Butler probably coined the term to
>describe their process of sleeved and fillet brazed
>costruction, as described by Hillary Stone in C+.
>When I spoke to Tom Ritchey about his similar frames
>last year, I understood that this was also that
>process that Tom used.
>More recently, among English framebuilders,
>'bilaminate' has become a synonym for 'brazed,
>soldered or glued-on frilly bit'.
>I would be surprised if this usage was accepted during
>the forties & fifties- 'bilaminate' would have been
>taken to mean a Claud Butler.
>Notwithstanding the current usage of the term, I
>suggest that in the context of this forum,
>'bilaminate' should refer to sleeved & fillet brazed
>Claud Butlers, and perhaps to frames made using the
>same process, such as the recent ebay Ritchey.
>Tangs and lug extensions are 'fiddly bits'.
>David Benson
>Auckland, New Zealand, where the fact that my
>Holdsworth Whirlwind is apparently festooned with
>fraudulent and non-structural fiddly bits in no way
>detracted from my enjoyment of a colish autumnal
>Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.