Re: [CR]is a frame "custom" w/stock lugs?

Example: Framebuilders:Rene Herse

Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 14:43:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fred Rafael Rednor <>
Subject: Re: [CR]is a frame "custom" w/stock lugs?
In-Reply-To: <>

> This came up on the Framebuilder's list a while > back. IIRC, most builders maintained that in > fact "Made to Measure" and "Custom" are NOT the > same thing, but it didn't have all that much to > do with the lugs...

If I were to visit the tailor and purchase a made-to-measure suit would it only be considered "custom made" if I have contrasing color piping or epaulets or some special flap on the pockets? (If for some reason the answer is "yes" please stop reading right now and let's simply agree to disagree.)

I ask this question because everyone I know who is familiar with the term considers "bespoke frame" and "custom frame" to be synonomous, as is also the case with clothing (unless perhaps you're Michael Jackson). "Bespoke frame" is the preferred term in Britain and I almost wish it were used here, just to avoid this sort of argument.
      Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia