Re: [CR]Peter Kohler's remarks on American bike builder's qualitybeing ajoke

Example: Racing:Wayne Stetina
From: "P.C. Kohler" <>
To: "jerrymoos" <>, "Tom Sanders" <>, <>
References: <009101c44b40$d229c740$aebe0b18@C1921978A> <015a01c44b45$a77e5ec0$efddfea9@mooshome>
Subject: Re: [CR]Peter Kohler's remarks on American bike builder's qualitybeing ajoke
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 23:57:08 -0400

----- Original Message -----
From: jerrymoos
To: Tom Sanders

<> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [CR]Peter Kohler's remarks on American bike builder's qualitybeing ajoke

> I would agree with Peter that until the 80's or maybe late 70's there were
> extremely few top quality high volume American road bikes except Schwinn
> Paramount. There were always a few custom builders around, and more of them
> beginning in the 70's, but it was hard to walk into a shop and buy a top
> quality American bike.

Well... I think what I was trying to say was precisely in the context with the CR period. We sometimes forget we are indeed supposed to be concerned with pre mid 1980s cycles and cycling. Not now or in the future.

And as I was careful to state, my opinions were based on my personal feelings during this time. I simply didn't consider American or Japanese made cycles during this time and I said maybe"for no good reason". Well some of you are proving exactly that.

Then again, I guess I am proven right when most of us seem to be into Italian, French and British bikes of the era in the question. Dare I suggest that most Japanese collectors seem to concentrate, too, on these countries. I don't think it's absurd or unfair or even a generalisation to state that these countries largely defined cycling (as we at CR seem to define to define it) and cycle sport during the CR Period i.e. 1946-1985. If I am wrong, where are the postings on great Chinese lightweights or I love my Fuji?

Finally, my posting was more to put into focus the idea of famous British, French or Italian names being built in foreign countries. The name is the same but is it the same? Can a Vietnamese factory worker cannot put into his Bianchi or whatever what an Italian worker could when that Italian was part of a great national cycling tradition. Or is that an assumption on my part? If China, Japan, Viet-Nam and indeed the USA had a great and enduring cycling tradition c. 1946-85 comparable to Britain, France and Italy in terms of what the CR list is into (quality lightweight cycles and great champion cyclists), great. If it translates into great bikes, even better.

Peter Kohler
Washington DC USA