Re: [CR]Peter Kohler's remarks on American bike builder'squalitybeing ajoke

Example: Framebuilders:Alberto Masi
From: "sam Lingo" <>
Subject: Re: [CR]Peter Kohler's remarks on American bike builder'squalitybeing ajoke
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 14:25:32 +0000

P.C. I would have replyed sooner with a firy-retart if I could have found a way to disagree!

I never realized till now that when we(America) produced great riders we also produce great bikes.Do they go hand in hand?And I guess it could be said that America has always produced a limited number of quality builders,Schwinn didn't have to look far when they built the Paramount.But nothing that would compare to the BIG 3 (Eng.France Italy)

sam lingo

pleasanton tx

>From: "P.C. Kohler" <>
>To: "jerrymoos" <>,"Tom Sanders" <>,<>
>Subject: Re: [CR]Peter Kohler's remarks on American bike builder'squalitybeing ajoke
>Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 23:57:08 -0400
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "jerrymoos" <>
>To: "Tom Sanders" <>;
>Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 5:39 PM
>Subject: Re: [CR]Peter Kohler's remarks on American bike builder's
>qualitybeing ajoke
> > I would agree with Peter that until the 80's or maybe late 70's there were
> > extremely few top quality high volume American road bikes except Schwinn
> > Paramount. There were always a few custom builders around, and more of
> > beginning in the 70's, but it was hard to walk into a shop and buy a top
> > quality American bike.
>Well... I think what I was trying to say was precisely in the context with
>the CR period. We sometimes forget we are indeed supposed to be concerned
>with pre mid 1980s cycles and cycling. Not now or in the future.
>And as I was careful to state, my opinions were based on my personal
>feelings during this time. I simply didn't consider American or Japanese
>made cycles during this time and I said maybe"for no good reason". Well some
>of you are proving exactly that.
>Then again, I guess I am proven right when most of us seem to be into
>Italian, French and British bikes of the era in the question. Dare I suggest
>that most Japanese collectors seem to concentrate, too, on these countries.
>I don't think it's absurd or unfair or even a generalisation to state that
>these countries largely defined cycling (as we at CR seem to define to
>define it) and cycle sport during the CR Period i.e. 1946-1985. If I am
>wrong, where are the postings on great Chinese lightweights or I love my
>Finally, my posting was more to put into focus the idea of famous British,
>French or Italian names being built in foreign countries. The name is the
>same but is it the same? Can a Vietnamese factory worker cannot put into his
>Bianchi or whatever what an Italian worker could when that Italian was part
>of a great national cycling tradition. Or is that an assumption on my part?
>If China, Japan, Viet-Nam and indeed the USA had a great and enduring
>cycling tradition c. 1946-85 comparable to Britain, France and Italy in
>terms of what the CR list is into (quality lightweight cycles and great
>champion cyclists), great. If it translates into great bikes, even better.
>Peter Kohler
>Washington DC USA