[CR]Re: RE - Jerry Moos remarks on "People's Car"


Example: Framebuilders:Tony Beek
From: "jerrymoos" <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Amir Avitzur" <avitzur@013.net.il>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
References: <BAY1-F113fBsDjTAzcM00022d09@hotmail.com> <01ea01c44c91$eb23d720$efddfea9@mooshome> <002001c44d81$a6d25a60$70f2a652@ericaspc>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 18:25:46 -0500
Subject: [CR]Re: RE - Jerry Moos remarks on "People's Car"

That sounds like politically correct revisionist history to me. Next you will say that the magnificant Mercedes and Auto Union racing cars developed under the Nazis were just an optical illusion. When Hitler wanted to siphon money he unfortunately had much more direct and brutal means at his disposal. Denying the successes and popularity of tyrants like Hitler and Stalin only makes one less vigilant in detecting future tyrants before they gain power.

The same thing applies in cycling. Was the Communist system a good one? No. Did it produce excellent riders including Jan Ulrich? Yes. Evil systems and evil people can produce some positive things, although that does not in any way justify them.

Regards,

Jerry Moos
Houston, TX


----- Original Message -----
From: Amir Avitzur
To: jerrymoos
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 12:54 PM
Subject: RE - Jerry Moos remarks on "People's Car"



> Jerry Moos wrote:
>
> "It seems the most prominent champion of affordable automobiles for the
> European masses was, sadly, Adolph Hitler, who ordered development of the
> Volkswagen, or "People's Car" as a way of solidifying his popularity with
> the German working class."
>
> That's nonsense. Adolph Hitler used the VW as a way of syphoning money from
> the masses for his war effort. VW delivered very, very few cars "to the
> masses" before or during the WWII. VW "people's cars" first became popular
> under British and American occupation.
>
> Amir Avitzur
>
> Ramat-Gan, Israel
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jerrymoos" <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
> To: "sam Lingo" <samclingo@hotmail.com>; <pariscyclesuk@hotmail.com>;
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 3:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [CR]Peter Kohler's remarks
> onAmericanbikebuilder'squalitybeingajoke
>
>
> > Early in the 20th century, two events occurred which reshaped American
> > society and propelled the auto industry to the forefront of American
> > industry. Henry Ford developed mass production techniques which made
> motor
> > cars affordable for the average person, and huge oil fields were
> discovered
> > in Texas, which would quickly led to cheap and plentiful gasoline for
> > Henry's creations.
> >
> > But every great social change has its negative consequences, and the rapid
> > rise of the American auto industry produced an equally rapid decline in
> the
> > once prominent American bicycle industry. No person is more symbolic of
> > this rapid transformation than Barney Oldfield, who most Americans know as
> > the daring auto racer who piloted many of Henry Ford's racing prototypes,
> > including the lengendary "999". What is now usually forgotten is that
> > Oldfield had previously been equally famous as a prominent bicycle racer.
> >
> > I think the cycling culture survived in Europe because auto manufacturers
> > there were slower to embrace mass production and the mass market. It
> seems
> > the most prominent champion of affordable automobiles for the European
> > masses was, sadly, Adolph Hitler, who ordered development of the
> Volkswagen,
> > or "People's Car" as a way of solidifying his popularity with the German
> > working class. No doubt the survival of cycling also owed a lot to the
> fact
> > that Western Europe had no significant oil reserves (the technology to
> find
> > oil at the bottom of the North Sea would not be developed unitil well
> after
> > WWII). So gasoline in Europe was much more expensive than in America, and
> > was made more so by the the heavy taxation of petroleum products by most
> > European governments. So even if the working man could affort to purchase
> a
> > car, the cost of fuel was a further barrier, and many continued to use
> > bicycles as their primary transportation, which maintained a base of
> support
> > for the cycling industry and sport cycling.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jerry Moos
> > Houston, TX
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "sam Lingo" <samclingo@hotmail.com>
> > To: <pariscyclesuk@hotmail.com>; <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 10:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: [CR]Peter Kohler's remarks on
> > Americanbikebuilder'squalitybeingajoke
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Gormully's did indeed have fancy lugs--I call that maker G&Js for
> > short.They sold their bicycle line around 1903 to Pope when G&J started
> > american motors corp.Pre 1900 American bikes were as good as could be
> found
> > anyplace in the world.Dayton(huffy) built a cro-moly as early as 36 maybe
> > earlier.By 1910 motors were our fancy,so bicycles took a big hit in the
> > states till 1970
> > >
> > > sam lingo pleasanton tx
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Mick Butler" <pariscyclesuk@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > > >To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > >
> > > >Subject: Re: [CR]Peter Kohler's remarks on American
> > bikebuilder'squalitybeingajoke
> > >
> > > >Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 15:21:00 +0000
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >Hi all,
> > >
> > > >American bicycles are held in high esteem in the UK. Especially the
> > >
> > > >early makers such as Gormully & Jeffrey, Eagle, Overman, Pope,
> > >
> > > >Dayton, Iver Johnson, Ranger and those stunning Schwinn track irons.
> > >
> > > >Didn't Gormully's fit fancy lugs or lug extensions way back in
> > >
> > > >1900's on their Rambler?
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >Best wishes and be lucky. Michael Butler Huntingdon UK.