[CR]MASI ? (Now I know how wars get started)

(Example: Racing:Jean Robic)

From: <BobHoveyGa@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 13:00:29 EDT
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: [CR]MASI ? (Now I know how wars get started)

In a message dated 7/30/2004 5:55:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Ray writes: My observations on this topic began with me trying to understand the reason for the difference in price between the two. No where did I ever compare the two as being equal. In fact I went to great pains to say. Both had been repainted so that could not be a factor, both were mismarked so that could not be a factor. One had a mix of undesirable components but the other had no or a few insignificant components so that could not be it. My conclusion was therefore was the date of the frame had to be the determining factor. Now if that is the case and this is the less desirable mid 80s version what would an equally equipped and finished late 70s model bring in comparison. Look at the subtile but clear question I just asked. I did not say they are equal, I asked what if one was a late 70s vs a mid 80s equally equipped. Sheesh! Now I know how wars get started.

Ray Homiski Elizabeth, NJ

Ray;

I was one of the folks who responded to your original query, and please be assured I was not trying to start a war or even be argumentative... I was merely trying to address your comment/question:
> I say bah! Look at
> this one that closed recently. The only difference I see is the date which
> must be the main value factor.

As I tried to convey in my reply, there were far more differences between those two bikes than just their respective dates. The construction details (which I feel to be the primary factor that sets them apart) of the '86 San Marcos Gran Crit and the late '60s Masi Special really have little to do with the date (aside from a sad tendency for the quality and quantity of hand work and traditional craftsmanship to diminish over time in many production frames). For example, with some bikes (like the products of many of the one-man shops) the very opposite is true... ovarall craftsmanship and quality often improves over time because the builder has gotten better and in addition may be less willing to compromise (and his reputation having grown, may find himself in a position where he is able to charge a higher price which saves him from having to constantly examine every little cost-cutting and labor-saving measure as the big manufacturers feel they must do).

To try to find a single factor (like the date) that would explain the difference in price we see in this example probably serves little purpose (at least to be useful as a rule of thumb) since there are many cases where the other factors you mentioned earlier in you message (overall condition, quality of components) in addtion to things like demand for a particular frame size, uniqueness of history (of the builder, or race history, or owner), would play a greater part.

Now, for your next question (prices of 70's vs. 80's Gran Crits), I have 68 California Masis in my photo collection. Not all of them have prices and a few are 3V's, but as best as I can determine, the 70's Masis sold for an average of $1,140 ($380-$2350, 20 examples) while the 80's Masis sold for an average of $890 ($360-$1,700, 22 examples). Keep in mind that the difference in value is really far greater than these figures represent because the 70's examples include six bare frames (one forkless) while the 80's examples include only one bare frame.

Respectfully yours, Bob Hovey Columbus, GA

BTW, to correct a tiny point in your message, above... both bikes have not been repainted or 'mismarked', only the Special. To the best of my knowledge, the San Marcos bike has it's original paint and decals.