re: [CR]TUBIES and Clincher tire Rant

(Example: Framebuilders:Pino Morroni)

From: <hersefan@comcast.net>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: re: [CR]TUBIES and Clincher tire Rant
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 04:08:07 +0000


I agree and disagree.

Today tubulars and clinchers are so close because the very best tubulars aren't made anymore. A top end tubular such as a Vittoria or Veloflex tubular is just not the same as a Clement Seta or a silk Del Mondo tubular of years gone by.

Of the widely available clincher tires these days, a Veloflex Pave 22mm or a Michelin Axial Pro 25mm is pretty similar to the best tubulars one can currently buy.

In my mind, if you don't use the very best tubular, why bother with a tubular? Its all about the super lively casing and that wonderful road feel. Use a cheaper tubular and you get more flats typically and the ride heads south. At least with a fancy clincher you can always patch it easily.

One exception to all this is the Challenger 28mm tubulars that are based on the Clement molds of about 10 years ago. There is just no clincher out there that is wide that is as lightweight as the Challenger. I've even used the Challenger off road - its a blast. They only thing is that Challenger quality is horrible. The tire is made as badly as possible without being unusable. They are not straight, and the base tape adhesion is scary.

But a wide tubular with a light casing is a wonderful thing. And no, the Tufo tires don't count. They are not designed for a supple ride.

And yes, a clincher could be made in 28mm that is super lively and light but nobody does it. After the 25mm Michelin Axial Pro there are no top quality wide clinchers. The Rolly Polly is too heavy and on many rims it isn't even 26mm wide.

In the old days, the French tourers had handmade wide clinchers with tubular like casings. They existed before 1940 yet nobody seems to want to make them today.

Mike Kone in Boulder CO


-------------- Original message --------------


> Thomas Rawson wrote:

\r?\n>

\r?\n>

\r?\n> Having come to road bikes late in life and having completely jumped over =

\r?\n> the tubular tire experience/preference that many of you speak of, Id =

\r?\n> like to know more.

\r?\n>

\r?\n> What brand, model, size should I be looking for that provides the =

\r?\n> classic tubular ride those of you who like them prefer and which yields =

\r?\n> a desireable look for an early 70's bike?

\r?\n>

\r?\n> +++++++++++++++++++++++=

\r?\n> Well, Tom, the Hetchins Spyder I bought last summer also came with tubies, and

\r?\n> I've been getting re-acquainted with them after many years. I'd respectfully

\r?\n> suggest that your "naive" questions remind me of those of the child viewing the

\r?\n> Emperor's new clothes... The naked truth is that I doubt thatthere is really

\r?\n> much difference in ride between tubulars and very good wired-ons any more.

\r?\n>

\r?\n> When I started riding in the early 60s, there was a measured 1-1/4 pound (600 gm

\r?\n> or so) per wheel difference between reasonable sew-up wheels and the best

\r?\n> wired-ons of the era that I could easily get (27"x1-1/4" Dunlop Road Racers,

\r?\n> Weinmann alloy rims; I don't think I ever weighed the stainless high pressure

\r?\n> Dunlop rims). Wired-on rims were smooth-sided on the inside, instead of having

\r?\n> a bead-locking ridge, so they needed a stout bead wire and had pretty stiff

\r?\n> walls. I was sure I could feel the difference in ride, handling, and

\r?\n> acceleration. In fact, I remember selling a Raleigh International with wired-on

\r?\n> wheels to a buddy, because it felt like steering a truck. He immediately

\r?\n> changed stem length, put on sew-ups, and it felt completely different. I gnashed

\r?\n> my teeth...

\r?\n>

\r?\n> I'm sure there is still some weight penalty for wired-ons, but I'm not sure that

\r?\n> there is anywhere near the performance difference anymore. I'm gradually using

\r?\n> more sew-ups on my classic bikes, but largely because it is hugely easier to get

\r?\n> correct rims. One of my buddies commutes exclusively on sew-ups, using pretty

\r?\n> stout ones and claiming that he generally wears 'em out in a couple of thousand

\r?\n> miles before flatting.

\r?\n>

\r?\n> So, what tires to I use? Primarily what is in stock in the basement (duh). On

\r?\n> the recommendation of friends, when I buy sew-ups I've started buying Tufos,

\r?\n> because the technology seems better. Your mileage may vary.

\r?\n>

\r?\n> harvey sachs

\r?\n> McLean Va.