Ken wrote:
"Regarding Q factor: How can anyone reasonably say
> that narrow is good
> or wide is good when if we measure the rider's
> pelvis widths."
This is a very good point you make. Back when I was a thin, handsome guy, I got measured up at what was then a reputable shop (and what is now non-existent) for a correct bike fit.
When I got the specs, I ordered a complete Campagnolo (OT) grouppo to have installed on a wicked Serrota frame.
Anyhow, when this bike was assembled, I always felt like I was straddling a moped or small motorcycle. I had a fear of getting those bow-legged "bicycle rider legs" and worse yet more of a fear of "bicycle rider/racer walking syndrome." (This is where one "hobbles" as opposed to walks--It seems to affect these individuals for life.)
I fault Campagnolo for this as they shot themselves in the foot in the post NR/SR era and started producing (OT) compact BB's and cranks. I think the (OT) BB was only 102.5mm in length. But it was the OT C-Record, Chorus, etc, cranks that "bowed" out from the center.
To make matters worse, I had a desk job for 3 years and as a result got fat. My pelvis was still the same size, but there was more fat around the insides of my legs. So I sold the Serotta.
Please hear me out, this comes full circle and gets back on topic quickly.
About a year ago I had a small (52mm) complete Motobecane Gran Jubilee from about the mid-70's. It was all Huret Jubilee, Mafac Competition, and the cranks were Stronglight-93.
I was going to put the Motobecane up for sale on eBay, so I decided to take it for a test ride. This bike was so fast it scared me! The main thing I remember is the comfort factor between my legs while pedaling. Those Stronglights were simply kick-ass cranks.
The point here is that after I got fat, my legs were closer together and needed a narrower fit and riding that Motobecane with that super compact rigid fit was all the proof I needed.
I missed the initial post about donuts the other day. But after seeing so many posts about donuts, I hopped in my car and cruised to Krispy Kreme Donuts and bought a bunch. Also, my friend drives a taxi and the other night he had a drunk dude in the back who was leading him on a "wild goose chase." My buddy finally realized that this guy had absolutely no idea where he wanted to go. So he drove his taxi into a vacant dirt lot and started doing "donuts" with the drunk guy slamming from side to side in the back of the car. The guy came to his senses real fast and suddenly knew exactly where he wanted to go.
Ted Baer
Palo Alto, CA
> As someone who prefers to have ALL of his bikes fit
> as
> exactly/perfectly as my custom modern
> all-out-light-as-can-intelligently-be performance
> machine, I use the
> FitStik http://www.cyclemetrics.com/
> been able to
> successfully configure (fiddling with longer quill
> stems and seat post
> setbacks) every one of my sizes 50 to 56 to have an
> identical
> positioning as my modern steed has. I ride these
> classics-- with
> fenders to preserve the older frames with all that
> clearance, to the
> best of my abilities-- and have the same reach, leg
> extensions, etc.
> Sometimes this involves compromise as period-correct
> bars get replaced
> by Salsa Poco as I have this tremendously (for me at
> least) ergonomic
> bar on every bike that gets ridden on long, pushing
> rides. I also have
> never been able to get along with leather saddles--
> I have some of
> course but not on bikes with which I spend a lot of
> comfortable hours--
> so color-matched, same shaped Sella Italia saddles
> adorn the regular
> riders. Again same everything fit-wise, save for
> the weight
> distribution fore-aft which along with trail, etc
> affects the handling,
> etc. Sometimes, in a real world riding situation,
> with all the
> unexpected things which can occur necessitating
> emergency braking, etc,
> I feel that I have far more control and confidence
> with say a set of
> Tektro (polished-look) long arm dual pivots, shod
> with KoolStop salmon
> pads (the old Mathauser recipe) with their toe-in
> adjustability than
> Weinmann or MAFAC or even Modolo or Campy. So I go
> for it on a bike on
> which I again spend a lot of time. When I am riding
> a 100% period
> perfectly equipped bike like my Hi-E Cosmopolitan,
> the first few times
> I have to apply the binders, it really wakes me up,
> because I all of a
> sudden have to rethink the actions for the more
> inadequate componentry.
> And, yes, I think the baseball bat donut analogy
> works as when I lose
> the heavier 700x 32 wheels and fender-induced
> aerodynamic drag, and go
> to my modern steed, I truly do feel set free
> somewhat. Just my opinion
> of course, but that is what works for me.
>
> Regarding Q factor: How can anyone reasonably say
> that narrow is good
> or wide is good when if we measure the rider's
> pelvis widths. I would
> bet the resulting anthropometric measurements would
> vary by more than
> the amount of difference between the most narrow and
> widest Q factors.
> Practically, I try to not vary it my too much bike
> to bike as I feel,
> like Hjertberg, Brandt, etc, that our legs can get
> used to a
> minimal/moderate range of change, but to go narrow
> to wide off and on
> is something to be avoided. So, and because I do my
> fair share of
> off-road stuff on my MTB, I have converted to
> doubles on everything and
> it is only a few mm from my narrowest Stronglight 99
> double to the MTB
> double on the widest side. Oh, and same crank
> lengths too, of course!
>
> Ken Wehrenberg, Hermann, MO --back to SB next week
>
>
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