[CR]Re: Derby King

(Example: Production Builders:Cinelli:Laser)

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:52:13 -0800 (PST)
From: <"cydyn@aol.com">
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
In-Reply-To: <MONKEYFOOD5pneeFUtL00002001@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org>
Subject: [CR]Re: Derby King

Holland Jones started Fulton Street Cyclery in San Francisco in 1971. He was one of Jack Taylor's largest dealers and was responsible for establishing that marque in the Bay area. He was also an early Eisentraut dealer, and always had a shop full of wonderful frames. I was working at Mill Valley Cyclery in 1970-1972 and helped teach him wheelbuilding. Holland has a good grasp of bikes and bike history. I think Bernie Mikkelsen has been some of his custom frames in the past. Bernie has built a number of custom frames for me through the years as well and is a clean accurate builder. I wouldn't hesitate to do business with him.

Paul Brown Cycle Dynamics Santa Rosa, CA

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Today's Topics:

1. Fantastic Frame Packing Job Photos (Dave from Maine) 2. derby king (Matteo Brandi) 3. Re: Derbyking (stevens) 4. Re: Deryking (stevens) 5. RE: What's Eddy riding? (stevens) 6. WTB : Campagnolo "no Record" HF front 36H hub (Donald Gillies) 7. RE: What's Eddy riding? (Thomas Adams) 8. Re: Deryking (Morgan Fletcher) 9. Re: Derbyking (Raymond Dobbins) 10. RE: What's Eddy riding? (stevens) 11. What bike is Eddy riding 12. RE: What bike is Eddy riding (George Argiris) 13. What's Eddy riding? 14. RE: What's Eddy riding? (richardsachs@juno.com) 15. Another eBay record high? Colnago panto SR shifters (Raymond Dobbins)

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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:19:11 -0800 (PST) From: Dave from Maine To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, Chuck Johnston Subject: [CR]Fantastic Frame Packing Job Photos Message-ID: <20050120211912.35257.qmail@web50506.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 1

I received my Eddy Merckx frame from list member John Morrison today, and I must say, it's the best packed frame I've seen. It was refreshing to see after my crushed-frame problem a few weeks ago. (Not to say that if the same Fed-Ex-Ground elephant that sat on my box sat on this one it wouldn't have bent it too). I've posted photos on my homepage for those of you who want to check them out. http://www.geocities.com/davefromainetoo/MerckxPack.html

Dave Whitney Poland, Maine, where it was minus 18 degrees yesterday!

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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:34:52 +0100 From: Matteo Brandi To: Subject: [CR]derby king Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2

....checked their prices,crack kills.

Matteo BRandi firenze Italy

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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:38:55 -0700 From: "stevens" To: gpvb1@comcast.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR] Derbyking Message-ID: <20050120213855.M25559@veloworks.com> In-Reply-To: <012020052031.12752.41F015250008BEB8000031D02205886014CE0D909F09@comcast.net> References: <012020052031.12752.41F015250008BEB8000031D02205886014CE0D909F09@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: stevens@veloworks.com Message: 3

Derby King is owned/operated by Holland Jones, who used to (and maybe still does) own Velo City, on Stanyan Street in the Haight, near Golden Gate Park.

Address information for Derby King (gleaned from Whois info) is:

Derby King Wheels 239 W. 22nd St Chico, CA 95928

The site is run by Henry Kingman, a great BOB-type person who has written for the Riv Reader and BOB Gazette, and used to edit California Bicyclist, if I recall correctly.

More about Henry is here:

http://www.milly.org/hkingman/

With these two involved, I'm sure it's legit.

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:31:33 +0000, gpvb1 wrote
> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 11:30:31 -0800
> From: "Jack Gabus"
> To:
> Cc: Greg Arnold
> Subject: [CR]Deryking
> Message-ID:
>
> Fellow CR'rs
>
> Has anybody out there had any business dealings with an outfit by
> the name of Derbyking.com. I have had some e-mailing with them but
> they are a very clandestine bunch. If you have where is the
> mysterious group located (I'm guessing bay area) and what is is with
> there web site?
>
> Jack (Don't wanna be snookered) Gabus
> Laguna Beach, CA
> jack@shermangabus.com
>
> Jack:
> That's one unusual website IMO. A whole lot of hand-waving, hocus-
> pocus, and downright BS in some cases.... My recommendation would be
> to proceed with the utmost of caution. (Unless you just *want* to
> pay 150 bucks for an NOS Regina Oro freewheel - one can only imagine
> what the prices are on all the stuff that they won't even show
> prices for). Greg "Whoa" Parker Dexter, Michigan
>
> _______________________________________________

-- Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:41:28 -0700 From: "stevens" To: Kurt Sperry Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Deryking Message-ID: <20050120214128.M59741@veloworks.com> In-Reply-To: <75d04b48050120130824adc2fe@mail.gmail.com> References: <25202187.1106253252016.JavaMail.root@wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net> <75d04b48050120130824adc2fe@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: stevens@veloworks.com Message: 4

Henry is site admin (and lives in Nevada).

Derby King is owned by Holland Jones, the Jack Taylor king of San Francisco during his tenure at Velo City on Stanyan Street.

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:08:53 -0800, Kurt Sperry wrote
> Domain Name.......... derbyking.com
> Creation Date........ 2003-04-12
> Registration Date.... 2003-04-12
> Expiry Date.......... 2005-04-12
> Organisation Name.... DerbyKing Wheels
> Organisation Address. 239 W. 22nd St
> Organisation Address.
> Organisation Address. Chico
> Organisation Address. 95928
> Organisation Address. CA
> Organisation Address. UNITED STATES
>
> Admin Name........... Henry Kingman
> Admin Address........ 187 1/2 E 5th Street
> Admin Address........
> Admin Address........ Winnemucca
> Admin Address........ 89445
> Admin Address........ NV
> Admin Address........ UNITED STATES
> Admin Email.......... iffy@best.com
> Admin Phone.......... 775-625-4801
> Admin Fax............
>
> Tech Name............ Henry Kingman
> Tech Address......... 187 1/2 E 5th Street
> Tech Address.........
> Tech Address......... Winnemucca
> Tech Address......... 89445
> Tech Address......... NV
> Tech Address......... UNITED STATES
> Tech Email........... iffy@best.com
> Tech Phone........... 775 625-4801
> Tech Fax.............
> Name Server.......... ns1.secure.net
> Name Server.......... ns2.secure.net
>
>
>
> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 15:34:11 -0500 (GMT-05:00), Louis Schulman
> wrote:
> > I had some discussions with Derby King about the purchase of a set of wheels. He asserts, and I don't know if this is true, that he is an expert on wheels and has special expertise, etc.
> >
> > All I know is that when I expressed my desire to try to keep things economical, he became insulting, and said I should shop "with the other bottom-feeders" on eBay. This sort of terminated our discussion.
> >
> > Louis Schulman
> > Tampa, FL
> >
> _______________________________________________

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:43:13 -0700 From: "stevens" To: David Patrick , "richardsachs@juno.com" , classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: RE: [CR]What's Eddy riding? Message-ID: <20050120214313.M28939@veloworks.com> In-Reply-To: <20050120192412.9598.qmail@web80706.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050120.102137.3783.16602@webmail05.nyc.untd.com> <20050120192412.9598.qmail@web80706.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: stevens@veloworks.com Message: 5

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 11:24:12 -0800 (PST), David Patrick wrote
> Richard,
>
> I've been trying to find out more about Kessel's relationship
> w/Merckx for the past six months or so, but I'm not making much
> progress. Kessels is effectively no longer in business and they
> sold bikes under the "Main D'Or" name. Another firm currently has
> the use of the "Main D'Or" name is putting it on a line of hybrid-
> like touring bikes that available in Belgium. Also, from what I've
> been told by a few people in Belgium & the Netherlands, the bikes
> that Kessels built for Merckx had a larger diameter seat stay tube
> than Colnago/DeRosa, and the seat stay cap was also flat, not
> fluted. I can not say this is 100% true, but it seems that most
> pics that show such details also feature a painted fork crown (not
> plated), but the crowns do appear to be Fisher (sp?). Also, the
> lugs on Kessels built frames for Merckx were the NOT the Prugnat 62D
> style, which were used by Colnago, but rather the simple long-point
> style Prugnats w/o any further embellishments (which model are
> these?).

Prugnat Type "I" ??

http://veloworks.com/lug_reference/prugnat_gallery/pages/PrugnatType%27I%27002.html

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:47:16 -0800 (PST) From: Donald Gillies To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]WTB : Campagnolo "no Record" HF front 36H hub Message-ID: <200501202147.NAA27003@cascade.cs.ubc.ca> Precedence: list Message: 6

Hi,

I'm looking for one of these hubs if someone has a singleton laying around. Please contact me off-list. Thanx,

- Don Gillies San Diego, CA ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:49:11 -0800 (PST) From: Thomas Adams To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: RE: [CR]What's Eddy riding? Message-ID: <20050120214911.47472.qmail@web51102.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050120.131539.3783.20308@webmail05.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 7

I'm not wondering about the brand of bike, I'm wondering what concatenation of circumstances could result in Eddy riding an all white no logo bike in such a major race? He was already a big star, the world champ, and you would expect his sponsors to spare no expense to make sure the team was properly kitted out. Were back up bikes often finished in an anonymous white and without graphics? I've never heard of that before for any Euro pro team of any era, but of course I know so little. An anonymous paint job can't have pleased any team's bicycle sponsor, but of course by '68 I presume Eddy's bikes were already labeled "Merckx". In any event, this is the first picture I've ever seen with a pro rider on a bike finished like this, and I'm just curious how this could come to be. I thought anonymous bikes debuted with the neutral support Mavic yellow machines.

Tom Adams, Shrewsbury NJ

"richardsachs@juno.com" wrote:

these guys had dozens of team bikes at their disposal. maybe more! how can you conclude anything regarding his chosen "brand" from a single old photograph? i've seen lots of differently painted faema era frames in that 68-70 era; there's hardly any consistancy except for the white-with-red "look". there are different frame features in all of them. if one was unmarked in the early years, maybe he was on
a backup bike.
e-RICHIE
chester, ct

-- Thomas Adams wrote:

Granted the list is in the archives, the question is why is the bike Eddy is riding in the picture so different from what we would expect? Could there have been some unusual circumstance in this race which resulted in Eddy riding something different from his normal Masi?

Bob Hovey (who must have much better eyes than me) says there's a BB cut out visible that is characteristic of a Masi. If so (and I have no reason to doubt him, but I'm going to pull out my magnifying glass when I get home :-)), we still don't know why the bike had such an unusual paint job. Bob speculates that Masi didn't have time to finish the paint before this race, and had to ship Eddy a bike "in the white". Does anyone know if the Tour of Flanders was the first race for Eddy with Faema? Do we know if he rode Milan San Remo in '68? I know he didn't win, but did he ride?

Tom Adams, still confused but on a higher level in Shrewsbury NJ

David Patrick wrote: This has been discussed many, many times before. In the archives you'll find a post that mentions a list of bike ridden obtained directly from Eddy by Brett Horton, and it is as follows:

1965 - Superia (stock bike) 1966 - Peugeot (stock bike) 1967 - Peugeot (stock bike) and Masi 1968 - Masi 1969 - Marcel Van der Este (Belgian builder) 1970 - Pella (or Pello) Torino, Italy 1971 - Colnago and Kessels 1972 - Colnago and Kessels 1973 - Colnago and Kessels 1974 - DeRosa and Kessels 1975 - DeRosa and Kessels 1976 - DeRosa and Kessels 1977 - DeRosa

Dave Patrick Chelsea, Michigan

stevens wrote: On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 18:08:32 +0100, Feeken, Dirk wrote
> Merckx rode Kessels bikes in his early career. Kessels was a famous
> belgian builder. Sometimes old Kessels appear on european eBay, even
> with the well known orange molteni Merckx paint and decals. I doubt that
> he ever had a Masi.

Eddy's "Peugeot" bicycles were made by Masi, as were the Faema bikes he rode in 1968-70.

Steven L. Sheffield Eerste van vier uit Zoutmeerstad.

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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:50:31 -0800 From: Morgan Fletcher To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Deryking Message-ID: <87k6q793dk.fsf@fletcher.sonic.net> In-Reply-To: <75d04b48050120130824adc2fe@mail.gmail.com> (Kurt Sperry's message of "Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:08:53 -0800") References: <25202187.1106253252016.JavaMail.root@wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net> <75d04b48050120130824adc2fe@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 8

Kurt Sperry writes:
> Admin Name........... Henry Kingman
> Admin Address........ Winnemucca
> Admin Address........ NV

http://www.milly.org/hkingman/

He used to write for a monthly bicycling newspaper in SF, as I remember; "California Cyclist" or something like that.

I bet some of the SF guys on this list know him.

Morgan -- Morgan Fletcher, morgan@hahaha.org Oakland, CA ------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:54:45 -0800 (PST) From: Raymond Dobbins To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: Derbyking Message-ID: <20050120215445.29523.qmail@web60407.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 9

i think that dealing with this outfit/person would be, in their own words, iffy@best.

sorry, just couldn't resist the lame joke.

ray dobbins miami, florida

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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:56:23 -0700 From: "stevens" To: "richardsachs@juno.com" , classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: RE: [CR]What's Eddy riding? Message-ID: <20050120215623.M86696@veloworks.com> In-Reply-To: <20050120214313.M28939@veloworks.com> References: <20050120.102137.3783.16602@webmail05.nyc.untd.com> <20050120192412.9598.qmail@web80706.mail.yahoo.com> <20050120214313.M28939@veloworks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: stevens@veloworks.com Message: 10

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:43:13 -0700, stevens wrote
> > Also, the
> > lugs on Kessels built frames for Merckx were the NOT the Prugnat 62D
> > style, which were used by Colnago, but rather the simple long-point
> > style Prugnats w/o any further embellishments (which model are
> > these?).
>
> Prugnat Type "I" ??
>
> http://veloworks.com/lug_reference/prugnat_gallery/pages/PrugnatType%27I%27002.html

David sent me a link to an image of the lugs he is referring to.

http://www.velostuf.com/prugnatlugs.jpg

They are the Prugnat Type "S" lugs pictured also pictured here:

http://veloworks.com/lug_reference/prugnat_gallery/index.html

Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:59:08 -0800 (PST) From: thteach@sonic.net To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]What bike is Eddy riding Message-ID: <10937.65.164.244.237.1106258348.squirrel@65.164.244.237> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 11

My speculation on the matter is that he had a problem with his main bike and got a loaner from the team car or a spectator.

The fog has burned off for the moment.

Todd Teachout Hercules, CA

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Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:00:57 -0800 From: "George Argiris" To: ,

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