Brandon, et al: I should have separated hand made from KoF somewhat more definitively. The hours spent making a KoF at the prevailing professional wages of a carpenter, plumber, electritrician, etc., is about $50 / hour. that means about $750-$ 1000 per frame profit, if your are in business for yourself. Then as a respected artisan you could make about $40-$50K per annum and maybe get a new car once in a while, maybe buy a house, have a kid or two and live like a civilized human being commensurate with your ability level. A bike dealers survey several years ago revealed that almost half of the independent dealers in the country made betwwen $20- $25 K per year! What the hell kind of a salary is that when one factors in all the responsibilities and hours a small retail store demands. Who painted the frame it took 20 hours to build, and how good was that job vs. cost of building? Decals, Striping? I'm not demeaning, just stateing some hard facts. I only have the highest regard and admiration for the brave souls that are able to absorb economical societal abuse to pursue their idealism and desire. How about retirement, medical, after breathing all those healthy aromas for decades? A statistic in today's paper stated that the country's average civil servant salary was almost $1000 / week! You know how much work too many of those slugs do to earn that salary. Some of our bicycle entrepeneurs might be better off making less and getting food stamps and any other perk our social services provide instead of getting caught in limbo land. Three bikes a day, hand made, will allow a modest markup multiplied out, gives at least a decent salary for the builder. Bottom lline, frame, rollers,etc, are labors of love and you need a big market that's willing to spend a dollar, or it's a subsistance level life. How do you compete against beer can specials made on the banks of rice paddies that the average rider feels is fine for their riding needs? Ted Ernst Palos Verdes Estates, Ca
> On Sunday, Jan 23, 2005, at 11:57 US/Pacific, ternst wrote:
>> It's the same with KoF frame production. With all shop costs and
>> regulations, To be reasonably viable one would have to be set up to make
>> 3 to 5 frames a day or the return on craftsmanship is meager indeed.
>
> You mean 3 to 5 frames a week, right? At 15 to 20 hours a frame for most
> "KOF" frames that sure would be one long day. When I was at Bike Friday
> we produced 3 to 5 a day, but we were hardly "KOF", though we were
> definitely handmade. Personally my business plan stipulates at most 1
> frame a week, well maybe 2 in a few years.
> best,
> Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
> not filing fillets today in Cd'A, ID.
> http://www.ivycycles.com
>
> PS: I've been planning to make some wooden rollers someday, but only if I
> can figure out how to make some 12" diameter drums like the old pre-30s
> rollers we used to have in the now defunct Bikesmith in Seattle.