Re: [CR]NOW: My beloved file marks. WAS: Your CR Post

(Example: Framebuilders:Richard Moon)

Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:14:51 -0800 (PST)
From: "Joe Starck" <josephbstarck@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [CR]NOW: My beloved file marks. WAS: Your CR Post
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
In-Reply-To: <20050127.205327.20998.154225@webmail18.nyc.untd.com>


--- "richardsachs@juno.com" <richardsachs@juno.com> wrote:
> do the frame's file marks
> detract from
> any thing/my expectations? not at all? why? well, in
> some respects
> it's because "who the hell am i to offer up
> judgement on this?".

You're the customer.
> this preoccupation with file marks and other visible
> "defects" as
> though they indicate a level of attention or lack of
> complete
> quality has less merit with me than it might with
> others.

Yes, "they indicate a level of attention." No, they don't necessarily indicate a "lack of complete quality."
>i was
> buying a piece of the man's history and i appreciate
> the fact
> that i could take advantage of a few days of his
> time and receive
> the fruits of his labor. he apprenticed at poglighi
> and derosa
> as far back as the 60s and early 70s. he's brought
> style and
> austerity to the framebuilding world.

A style and austerity that mirrors YOUR tastes, Richard.

his frames are
> iconic,

I'm not sure. I do think Singers are "iconic" though.

and i
> don't even know if that's the correct use of the
> word! i have looked
> at this frame from all angles and know it fully; the
> aspects that
> i see on the outside hardly stack up to what i know
> to be on the
> inside: over 40 years of fine framebuilding by a man
> who practices
> with the same methods

Why is "practices with the same methods" something to revere in opposition to other practices? I don't really think he does that, fully, and I don't think any builder does that. Creativity with methodology is part of the excitement of building.

that were once employed by the
> list of
> names that populate the collections of those reading
> this note.
> e-RICHIE

But OK, I liked the spirit of your heartfelt summation of Nagasawa's history and high craft, Richard. Let me add a taste to it.

The ever-helpful Chuck Schmidt posted these pics:

Here's an earlier Nagasawa that looks without flaw: http://www.cycles-yokoo.co.jp/nagasawa.html.htm

Head lugs: http://www.cycles-yokoo.co.jp/nagasawa-b.jpg

It's a specific feature on the head lugs I'd like to draw attention to. Richard, a while back I asked you off-list abut some lugsets you used to use, lugs that, I think, Davidson, Tesch, Holland, and I'm sure others used. There may have been more than one brand that had this feature, but you cited the Sampson brand. On the BB shell, at the intersections of all the sockets, the radii were increased to curves that resulted in a thing of beauty. The shell I'm thinking about flowed like sculpture. And the lugs were cast thicker at a certain spot also for good reason. Just like your Nagasawi and in the pics above, at the area where the tubes "fishmouth" the headtube, the thickness is increased so that there's no visible tight-radius line outside. On other lugs, the line is visible because of the tight radius given the even thickness; the line is about the thickness of a tig weld, and reminds me of a tig weld. Singer lugs come with a quite large radius, (hand-made lugs and all) evoking more a three-dimentional piece of sculpure and combined with the classic lines unique to Singer lugs, they earn respect in the craft. Aaron Lipstadt, I think, had a nice one refinished by Joe Bell. But back to the Nagasawas. There's no visible line circumferencing the lug. It has a sculpted feel to it, and I can't understand why today's lug makers haven't picked up on this like Nagasawa has all along, because it seems so elemental to me. I wouldn't want a lug cast without it -- you know, like -- if I took up the challenge of designing a set of lugs to be cast. When I initially saw the pics of your Nagasawa Richard, this is what popped out at me first; it was this aspect of the lugs that really jazzed me up, and I thought, OK, here's a big feather in Nagasawa's cap. Joe Starck, masidon, wi

__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo