This is what I want when I have a frame built:
I want the builder's hands to be guided by the metal, and for the frame to be built the way it wants to be built ... I want it to be natural. And if that means flaws, then I want flaws. And if that means no flaws, then I want no flaws.
The only thing I need to be perfect is the ride, but that depends more on me than on the builder.
Steven L. Sheffield Breathing freely now that the inversion has cleared Salt Lake City, Utah
On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 12:21:18 -0500, Olsson, Robert wrote
> snipped:
>
> All,
>
> THE FILE THREAD:
>
> What I would like to know is this:
>
> * when files scratches are visible, what options do framebuilders
> have to rectify it; can they fillet braze if it's deep [or is the
> extra heat a problem?]; can they use [220 grit?] sand paper to
> eliminate some lighter marks, what is the recourse and what is the
> thinking in whether some marks are left and others eliminated? From
> a framebuilder's POV, when they're working away day after day, I
> would imagine that they come to some point when they balance their
> workmanship and their work and can say: this frame is ready for
> painting. How does this process work?
>
> * I examined Richard Sachs' Nagasawa frame pictures and did notice
> the file marks and or casting voids in the under side of the fork
> crown that others have observed. Is the structural integrity of the
> fork compromised by those "anatomical variances"?? Should the
> framebuilder have chosen a more perfect casting? I am more curious
> to hear about how this bike rides, balances, steers, performs on the
> road, how much does it weigh, what kind of tubes were used, the tube
> metallurgic composition, how it climbs, accelerates, corners,
> descends, is it comfortable after an 80 mile ride, how does it take
> shocks, is it lively or dead, springy, stiff, can you take your
> hands off the bars and will it still coast straight, what makes it
> unique and special, etc.
>
> * Would Eddy have won more races if he rode on perfect file mark free
> specimens? Aren't those bikes [frames] now revered for the races
> they won and because of their providence? Is it about the frame, the
> man, the history, the heritage, all or what??
>
> * I am thinking about the original purpose of cycling: To get from
> point A to point B in a more efficient manner than walking. If I
> have a "Sears Free Spirit" or if I have a Nagasawa, I will still get
> there but the quality of the ride performance will vary. Alot
> depends of how the frame was made [were the tubes overheated??],
> which components are used, what kind of physical shape I'm in,
> weather, etc. Our CR list focus is to appreciate and examine the
> nuances and qualities which make up those wonderful hand made lugged
> steel frames and components which are a historical evolutionary step
> in this efficiency process. Here, all those threads of interpetation
> and debate of these materials makes for an interesting and
> informative read. If we remain open to new technologies, test them,
> try them, talk about them, then perhaps we may see incremently
> better performances in cycling efficiency, as what has been done for
> eons??
>
> Any file marked vintage 62cm track frames / bikes anyone wants to
> park at my house?
>
> Robert "still looking for the Holy Grail of frames" Olsson
> Croton-on-Hudson, NY
>
> >>> "Somethimes a framebuilder is judged unfairly
> >>> by some who've only seen the "oops!"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> well i guess that says it all, doesn't it.
> >>> your text is very interesting reading, but
> >>> at the core of this thread, isn't this (above,
> >>> your words) really what the issue is; people
> >>> judging other people's work, whether qualified
> >>> to do so or not?
> >>> e-RICHIE
> >>> chester, ct
> >>> "there's room on my flaw for you".
> >>
> >>
> >> Richard,
> >> You may think I've given you a juicy T-bone to chew
> >> on, and so enjoy it while you can, but, when I wrote
> >> the "oops!" I meant screw-ups in the shop that
> >> co-workers or customers could be aware of, "oops!"
> >> that would either be scrapped or fixed BEFORE it
> >> went
> >> out the door. And I'll even swear to God, The Devil,
> >> and Albert Eisentraut again on that count. Find
> >> another bone below to chew on.
> >> Joe Starck,
> >> masidon, wi
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -- Joe Starck <josephbstarck@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> --- brucerobbins <brucerobbins@supanet.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> ...The Joe
> >>>> Starcks of this world never seem to get it that
> >>>> there is no charm in
> >>>> perfection. Certainly, one can appreciate his
> >>>> pain-staking attention to
> >>>> detail and if you're a bit anal about these
> >> things
> >>>> then that's no doubt what
> >>>> will turn you on.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Bruce,
> >>> "Anal" is not synonomous with "perfection." "Anal
> >> is
> >>> derisive. It connotes a disorder. It pathologizes
> >>> what
> >>> is, in fact, a virtue. Perfectionism is a virtue.
> >>> It's
> >>> creative; it's procreative. It conserves; it
> >>> preserves. It ensures; it endures. It protects.
> >> It's
> >>> all that and more. It is a learned, guiding
> >> pursuit.
> >>> Perfectionism reigns supreme in Science, Art and
> >>> Craft. It's been around since, at least, gee whiz,
> >>> the
> >>> beginning of civilization.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I'm glad to say that I'm one of
> >>>> those he denigrates as
> >>>> misguided for thinking that it's nice to see the
> >>>> hand or file of an artisan
> >>>> in his work.
> >>>
> _______________________________________________
--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
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