[CR]British Bikes...Ernie Clements

(Example: Framebuilders:Dario Pegoretti)

From: "Alistair Johnston" <synertik@telus.net>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 22:30:27 -0800
Organization: Synertik
Thread-Index: AcUnjXn265vxFUkiTpS/bNcGh75vSgAB+xMg
In-Reply-To: <MONKEYFOODBnxEf1vnk0000364b@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org>
Subject: [CR]British Bikes...Ernie Clements

Nice to see a thread on British Bikes again. For all those who may or may not remember my searching last year while restoring the 1946 Ernie Clements I thought I'd take the opportunity to share some pics with the group of the finished article if you have an interest. I think it looks wonderful, original B17 saddle, Harden "Cheese Cutter" Hubs, Cyclo Ace 3 speed gear, Chater Lea pedals. Heck I even have photos of my father racing it in the late 40's.... Since I do not have a web site where the photographs reside can someone suggest how I can share them with the group assuming there is an interest.

Cheers Alistair Johnston, White Rock, BC

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 9:27 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 27, Issue 55

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Best British Bikes 35/54\ (Michael Butler) 2. Re: Best British Bikes 35/54\ 3. Re: TA Etoile chainring spacer (Mark Stonich) 4. Re British Bikes (Jim Gilchrist) 5. Any thoughts on repairing a Bianchi Frame (Jim Gilchrist) 6. Best British Bikes 35/54 (Doug Smith) 7. Best British Bikes 35/54...a coffee table tome? (Peter Jourdain) 8. lug identification (Russ Fitzgerald) 9. Re: lug identification (Michael Butler) 10. Pic of the Day 12 March (Aldo Ross) 11. Everest 6-speed Freewheel request (CHRISTOPHER ARKELL) 12. Martano rim stickers (greg arnold) 13. photos of my new Lygie (Otis) 14. Monthly NC Vintage Ride (Peter Koskinen) 15. Info on a three piece campy flip flop track hub (marc garcia) 16. wood rims (ternst) 17. Bob Frietas,please contact offlist.I have a messege for you.Sorry list,I apologize.H (Harris Spracher) 18. Re: Best British Bikes 35/54...a coffee table tome? (P.C. Kohler) 19. Free Hubs (Dan Coleman) 20. BIKES , BIKES, BIKES at the Atlanta Bike Show (charles nighbor)

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Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 20:04:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Butler <pariscycles@yahoo.co.uk> To: CR Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Best British Bikes 35/54\ Message-ID: <20050312200455.54800.qmail@web25305.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: 6667 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 1

Dear Charlie, I come originally from West London. This was the territory of Williamsons Willesden Lane, Ferris Hounslow, Newtons Acton and F.H.Scott of Ealing. Each club or locality tended to stay loyal to their local builders. So you can see that northern makers were a bit of a rarity down south unless their owners were touring or racing down here. There was some wonderful metal made up north and in particular these three are my particular favourites. Sheffield Langsett, Infirmary Road, Sheffield. Established in 1915 and still trading wonderful maker who sponsored many races and had various trade teams. Their 50's Nervex Pro models which were raced in the Tour of Britain and have a loverly ornate rear brake bridge and unusual seat stay eyes.

Whittaker and Maplebeck (Pennine) 4 Ingleby road, Girlington, Bradford. Established 1889 by F.N.Robinson made some wonderful frames and their 1960 Pennines are gorgeous.

Paragon (Andy Bone) Arkwright Street, Nottingham. Forever linked with the Sherwood CC and Nottingham Clarion. Some beautifully made lugged frames produced.

Thats all for now. Keep those wheels spinning, in your memories if not still on the road. Be lucky Mick Butler Huntingdon UK.

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Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 15:09:20 EST From: Oldtrikerider@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Best British Bikes 35/54\ Message-ID: <14.41043342.2f64a670@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2

I'd like to see pictures of an Andy Bone bike. I've heard of them and one was offered to me once.

Paul Patzkowsky Longmont, Colorado

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Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:01:56 -0600 From: Mark Stonich <mark@bikesmithdesign.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]TA Etoile chainring spacer Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20050312134740.036ee9f8@pop.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <20050312150656.70491.qmail@web81006.mail.yahoo.com> References: <42322D04.2030205@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 3

At 3/12/2005 07:06 AM -0800, Jerome Moos wrote:
>Maybe I'm a little dense, but it isn't obvious to me so I'll ask. What is
>it about the tandem setup that led TA to manufacturer this adapter for tandems?

Jerry, I can think of some possibilities.

For non-crossover (same side) tandem drivetrains you would need to offset the front connecting ring by quite a bit, to line up with it's mate at the rear. When they went to crossover drive they probably just kept the technology. Keeping the chain close to the bike reduces stress on the frame and bearings.

I've seen French tandems with connecting rings as small as 26t. The Etoile allowed any size (up to 52t) ring to be used as a connecting ring without tooling up for small size "outer" rings.

I rode a Gitane with 26s that had crossover drive w/steel cranks, without the chainring offset provided by the Etoile. The bottom tube appeared to be only about 32-35mm dia. Connecting chain tension was so high, and the frame so flexy that the left arm would hit the chain, when pedalling hard with the right foot. From the wear on the crankarm I'd say this was a common occurrence. And yes, I did check to see if the RH threaded fixed cup had worked loose.

Mark Stonich; Minneapolis Minnesota http://mnhpva.org http://bikesmithdesign.com

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Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 12:32:50 -0800 From: Jim Gilchrist <jim-gilchrist@shaw.ca> To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re British Bikes Message-ID: <46c2320c60c652c8bc0cea512efd0d12@shaw.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4

Funny you say that, I have a Claud Butler (mid to late '60's) which I have been riding quite a bit of late, just so enjoyable.

Really has had me wondering why I splashed out money for the new Cramerotti steel bike last year with Campy 10 on it, the BUtler does it all quite happily and more comfortably as well.

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Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 12:35:59 -0800 From: Jim Gilchrist <jim-gilchrist@shaw.ca> To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Any thoughts on repairing a Bianchi Frame Message-ID: <95414289dce95a90ee3cdb17f30f8e04@shaw.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5

I bought a full Super Record group (early '80's) the other day.

Much of it still mounted on a a lovely Chrome and Celeste Bianchi Speciallisimo.

The frame has clearly lost an arguement with a car at some point, the top and down tubes are buckled.

These were lovely bikes and I would appreciate any thoughts on who may be able to rebuild/repair this frame, is it even worth considering?

Any thoughts on cost?

Any help appreciated.

Jim Gilchrist Kelowna, BC

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Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 21:32:07 -0000 From: "Doug Smith" <doug@kingsweir.plus.com> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Best British Bikes 35/54 Message-ID: <000201c5274b$3025eef0$722b5c54@usertmf38sji6p> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 6

I go along with Mick and his few manufacturers he selected but ofcourse the it does'nt rest there the list is endless. Everone had their favourites depending on which part of the UK they lived. It can be said that some of the leading makers did spread their fame and became a national institution ie.Holdsworth ,Claud Butler, GA, Raleigh, etc. whilst others remained regional. The London marques were numerous and on the South Coast, the town of Brighton there was Strudwick.Further on Rotrax of Southampton supplied club men far and wide as they still do today. These frames could be found in large numbers around the Home Counties in 1930/50's .There was always a vast number of makers to choose from but the days of mail order being in its infancy, one had to rely on their nearest supplier.

So selecting the Best British Bike for me would be a tough task as I've always had great respect for all those other little known makers who contributed in that era , they I must say kept in line with the best builders world wide. For me personally, my choice was always the British bike manufacturers of the past and still remains the same .Otherwise there would be no point in me having my current collection of "Londoners" to ride and enjoy with others all having the same interest!

Doug Smith North Dorest UK

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Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:02:21 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Jourdain <pjourdain@yahoo.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Best British Bikes 35/54...a coffee table tome? Message-ID: <20050312220221.75862.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 7

I'm waiting for someone to do a great big coffee table book covering most of the various marques made during that era, and another book on the whole club and touring scene. It really was the golden age of the lightweight cycle, at least in the UK, with so many innovative designs, from Bates to Paris, Saxon to Thanet. Has anyone contemplated doing such a piece before the last original owners and builders of such cycles have long since departed. Hilary Stone are you listening??????

Peter Jourdain Waiting in Whitewater, Wisconsin

http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 17:18:41 -0500 From: Russ Fitzgerald <velocio@earthlink.net> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]lug identification Message-ID: <3c8d95b775c25d3d8460272860c95b05@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8

While "window shopping" on eBay, I encountered a lovely Malvern Star 5-star track frameset http://ebay.com/<blah ViewItem&category=420&item=6517518585&rd=1>, or item no. 6517518585. What stopped me was that the head lugs are identical with the ones on my old Dawes. Do any of you know what that pattern is called, or who made it?

thanks, Russ Fitzgerald Greenwood, SC, USA

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Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 23:17:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Butler <pariscycles@yahoo.co.uk> To: CR Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]lug identification Message-ID: <20050312231719.83537.qmail@web25309.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: 6667 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 9

Ekla lugs.

Russ Fitzgerald <velocio@earthlink.net> wrote:

Thats all for now. Keep those wheels spinning, in your memories if not still on the road. Be lucky Mick Butler Huntingdon UK.

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Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:18:27 -0500 From: "Aldo Ross" <aldoross4@siscom.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Pic of the Day 12 March Message-ID: <001601c52759$ccfdb9c0$961afbd1@Newhouse> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 10

Pic of the Day 12 March 2005 Nencini and Darrigade at the 1960 Giro d'Italia

http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/album17/1960GiroDarrigadeNencini

Guest image generously provided by Brett Horton. Thanks Brett!

Giro d'Italia, 1960. Gastone Nencini (#31), reigning world champion Andre Darrigade (#52, in his rainbow jersey), and Stefano Gaggero (#35). Nencini would go on to finish 2nd on GC that year behind Jacques Anquetil. For more info on this race, go to http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/ and click on "courses a etapes", then "Giro d'Italia", then "1960".

Aldo Ross Blue Ball, Ohio ETATS UNIS

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Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:40:13 -0500 From: "CHRISTOPHER ARKELL" <chris_arkell@msn.com> To: "classicrendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Everest 6-speed Freewheel request Message-ID: <BAY5-DAV6DE3752C8B0FEDFD1D489E4540@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 11

Folks-

I am looking for a late 70's era Everest alloy (silver cogs) 6-speed freewheel in NOS condition. Gearing to 19 or 20. Let me know if you have one you'd like to sell; reply off-list. Many thanks,

Chris Arkell Bloomfield Hills, MI

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Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 20:59:37 -0500 From: greg arnold <greg@nofatcomm.com> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Martano rim stickers Message-ID: <BE5908B9.DCFA%greg@nofatcomm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12

Greetings:

I found a great pair of NOS Martano 'bowtie' rims for my masi. Each of the rims have a sticker on them with a large A E R in red against a yellow background. Anyone know where this sticker comes from or what it signifies? Thanks!

Greg Arnold nyc

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Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:03:50 -0800 From: "Otis" <otis@otisrecords.com> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]photos of my new Lygie Message-ID: <DMEJIHDFKPCMMPJEINFDCEKKDLAA.otis@otisrecords.com> In-Reply-To: <MONKEYFOODSAQV6uPDV000035e4@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13

I picked up a pair of "his and hers" early 70's Lygie's last week. The "hers" being a 54cm and a keeper for me. It was set up with alloy "city bars", bar-cons, and a foofy saddle so I swapped that stuff out and ditched the pie plate for a 13-24. It had been owned by a bike guy who had already done the hard work years ago, so just a bit of tuning required to get her on the road. The NR gruppo is pristine. So far I have just putted around the neighborhood, but it rides pretty nice. I thought it would be way too lax a geometry for my taste but the steering is nice and positive and fairly quick for what it is. Anyway, here's some pics if you care to take a look.

http://uci.net/~brennan/leej1.jpg

http://uci.net/~brennan/leej3.jpg

http://uci.net/~brennan/leej2.jpg

http://uci.net/~brennan/leej4.jpg

Cheers, Jon Williams Grants Pass Oregon

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Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 21:35:51 -0500 From: "Peter Koskinen" <peter@prkbikes.com> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Monthly NC Vintage Ride Message-ID: <20050313023602.EDUF2068.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@gateway> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14

The inaugural monthly North Carolina Vintage ride was held today and it was a success. Tim Victor of Greensboro brought his Pinarello, Dave Long of Durham rode his Peugeot Fixie and I rode my Harry Quinn. All of us managed to get 20 miles in on serene quiet country roads despite the severe head wind gusting from the west at 20mph. We returned to the Collins Creek Compound to enjoy cold malted beverages and the 2nd half of the UNC/ GA Tech game in the ACC tournament. The only upset to the day was UNC losing to GA Tech. A good time was had by all.

The next monthly NC Vintage ride will be held on April 9th, 2005. Meet at noon , ride at one. All bikes 15 years or older are welcome.

Cheers,

Peter Koskinen Chapel Hill, NC

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Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:42:46 -0800 (PST) From: marc garcia <marcgarcia80@ameritech.net> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Info on a three piece campy flip flop track hub Message-ID: <20050313024246.30168.qmail@web81308.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 15

I just picked one of these up on ebay and I can't seem to find much info on these anywhere online. Just wondering about the basics, when were they made? I thought I read somewhere they were special orders only. I was also wondering if I could switch out the solid axle for a quick release. I bought it for my raleigh track bike and I hope to build it up in time for the fixed gear ride at cirque.

marc garcia chicago IL ------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 19:23:05 -0800 From: "ternst" <ternst1@cox.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]wood rims Message-ID: <00de01c5277b$f8a4ae90$0200a8c0@D8XCLL51> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 16

Ted needs your help. Trying to assemble several old track irons for display. Need some 32 and 40 hole wood track rims, could use 36, also. My steel track hub supply is typical '30's with several 32/40 hole combos. Age / vintage not critical, can be V-shape, domed, or flatter profile rims, just so they are sound and reasonably round so I can mix and match to build them up nicely and get the track framesets on their feet. Please let me know offlist if you can help out. Thanks. Ted Ernst Palos Verdes Estates, CA ternst1@cox.net 310-791-5521

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Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 19:52:51 -0800 (PST) From: Harris Spracher <bianchipan@yahoo.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Bob Frietas,please contact offlist.I have a messege for you.Sorry list,I apologize.H Message-ID: <20050313035251.12652.qmail@web54403.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 17

Says it all.Harris.

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Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 23:07:41 -0500 From: "P.C. Kohler" <kohl57@starpower.net> To: "Peter Jourdain" <pjourdain@yahoo.com>,
   <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Best British Bikes 35/54...a coffee table tome? Message-ID: <002101c52782$5a76e420$22e0fea9@man> References: <20050312220221.75862.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 18


----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Jourdain
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 5:02 PM
Subject: [CR]Best British Bikes 35/54...a coffee table tome?



> I'm waiting for someone to do a great big coffee table
> book covering most of the various marques made during
> that era, and another book on the whole club and
> touring scene. It really was the golden age of the
> lightweight cycle, at least in the UK, with so many
> innovative designs, from Bates to Paris, Saxon to
> Thanet. Has anyone contemplated doing such a piece
> before the last original owners and builders of such
> cycles have long since departed. Hilary Stone are you
> listening??????

Gosh, that would be nice! And nice just to have the CR List talking about British bikes, too. It's hard perhaps to pick a favourite British make as a foreigner since we miss the regional connections. But being married to a Briton and having a cottage in Colaton Raleigh, East Devon, nr. Sidmouth, I guess I ought to favour Southern or West Country makes!

But I remain a hopeless Raleigh man and since Sir Walter lived about 3 miles down the road from us, why not? It's pointless to argue the merits of British lightweights here, either you love 'em or you rather have a Masi. To me, British cycling "ethos" remains the pinnacle.. club rides, celluloid mudguards, Coloral water bottles, Reynolds tubing, Dunlop no. 2 sprints, Harden hubs and Conloy rims, polychromatic lilac paintwork... nothing more be said.

So my coffee table has a big bare spot for such a book.. but it's still going to collect dust when I have my 1948 Raleigh RRA sitting there ready to ride. Anyone who hasn't ridden an RRA, ah they are the ones deciding which was the best British marque of them all. A Raleigh from Lenton, Nottingham, England... bullseye!

Peter Kohler Washington DC USA ------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 20:19:56 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Coleman <dancol@flash.net> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Free Hubs Message-ID: <20050313041956.50759.qmail@web80207.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 19

I'm looking for information that on my own, have been unable to find. I'm looking for any info on Simplex 4 speed free hubs, Regina Merate 5 spd free hubs and Normandy 5 spd free hubs. I have several of these items and would like to know what rigs they came stock on, Also years, etc. Oh, also Wippermann Blockkette chains for track racing cycles. Any help in my search would be greatly appreciated.

Than You

Dan Coleman Jersey Shore

__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 21:27:25 -0800 From: "charles nighbor" <cnighbor@pacbell.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]BIKES , BIKES, BIKES at the Atlanta Bike Show Message-ID: <001101c5278d$578f5390$71bffea9@CharlesNighbor> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 20

BIKES, BIKES, BIKES

The 14th Annual Atlanta Southlands Antique and Classic Bicycle Show is coming April 2-3rd at the Marietta National Guard Armory, located just off the 120 South Loop and US 41 in Marietta, GA. Sat 2-6 Sun 8-4. $3 admission at the gate collected by the Marietta Lions Club. $30 for a space if your are vendor and want to set up shop inside the Armory. Vendors should register and pay by March 19 to guarantee space inside. Please send check or money order payable to: The Bicycle Club of Atlanta / P. O. Box 12341 / Atlanta, GA 30355

For Info Call: Wayne at 770-973-8330, Buck at 404-252-3432 or Jim at 770-938-3515 This is a wonderful chance for you to dust off your vintage crates, cruisers and vintage lightweight (10-speed) bikes from winter storage and get out and enjoy a fun weekend with other bicycle loving folks. The show will be a chance for you to show off your bicycle hardware and maybe even sell off some unneeded parts you have stashed away. You might also find that rare and wonderful part you have been lusting after.

Flyer located here : http://hometown.aol.com/bobhoveyga/myhomepage/BikeShow05.jpg

More details on the show here: http://www.oldbike.com/2000show/acbshow.html

Anyone going If so email a report to CR Charles Nighbor Walnut Creek, CA

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End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 27, Issue 55 *************************************************