Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
But I don't think anyone (least of all me) has seen ALL the SLs ever produced or ALL the SRs. So how can we know the truth, unless we have an uncle who was in charge of finishing SR and SL pedals at the Campy factory?
And you're an engineer, one of the unwashed empiracists? Jerry, the uncertainty principle rules out ever being able to predict anything with absolute certainty, but am I to believe that the moon is not there when I'm not looking? This is certainly THE great scientific question of the century, but perhaps a stretch here in the realm of the macroscopic.
Tom Dalton Bethlehem, PA
Sorry if my posting frustrated you. I'm not a Campy expert, nor do I play one on TV. I don't dispute that the SR pedals in the photo look nice, and if you say they are better than any SLs you have seen, I wouldn't dispute that. But I don't think anyone (least of all me) has seen ALL the SLs ever produced or ALL the SRs. So how can we know the truth, unless we have an uncle who was in charge of finishing SR and SL pedals at the Campy factory? Your theory could well be true, it's just that I (and evidently Peter) don't have any evidence to indicate that there was any difference in the bodies aside from the bearing cups. Maybe just ignorance on my part, but I think Peter has seen a lot more SR pedals than I. Personally I think Lyotard Berthets were the best pedals ever made, but some people maintain they were crap. Maybe that should frustrate me, but it really doesn't.
Regards,
Jerry Moos Houston, TX
Tom Dalton <tom_s_dalton@yahoo.com> wrote: Geeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..... I swear it gets frustrating sometimes. It's not anyone in particular, but I really get tired of hearing "no, X, Y, and Z are this way, we all know that." I heard this about the first generation SR brake levers years ago, when a couple of prominent Campiphiles swore up and down that the "long reach" Campy SR brake levers only existed as line drawings, and were otherwise the stuff of myth. That I was off my rocker. I now own a set, have another in the pipeline, and have since seen a few others.
This list should not be about the perpetuation of conventional wisdom and folklore. It should not be about preserving history as we remember it. It should be about going back and taking a closer look, piecing together the details that just didn't matter when we were simply riding the stuff.
I understand that we don't all approach this hobby from anything like the same perspective. Some of us just love riding old bikes. Some of us are serious students of the constructeurs. Some of us are passionate about race history. For whatever reason, I'm a little wierd about 70's and 80's Campy, and the details of the development of those products. I have kindred spirits in Japan, in guys like "HiCampy" and here in the US, in guys like Jon Barron. In point of fact, they deal with older, early productioon stuff that predates my interest in cycling and is unaffordable to me, but I appreciate the level of study they bring to this hobby.
I'm NOT asking that only the "experts" reply to my posts, I'm only asking that people read closely what everyone else writes, looking for the salient points, the questions, the new information, and then consider whether there is something they can contribute. In the case of what I posted about SR pedals, I think it was pretty clear from the get-go that I was aware that most folks believe there is no difference between SR and SL pedal bodies (other than the races, obviously). I hope it was clear that I'm aware that some SRs do, in fact, look just like SLs. I think it was clear that, based on visual evidence new to me, that I'm starting to wonder if the expert listmember who previously asserted that SR bodies are better finished than SLs may have been at least partly correct. This listmember is one of the guys who swore the old SR levers were the stuff of myth, so I'd like to see him be right on this one.
Useful information would include things along the lines of, "yes, I have a set of SRs that look just like the picture. They are on my all-original 1975 Team Pro..." It would not include, "I have a set of SRs, they look just like SLs, they all do." Unless, of course, you have seen ALL the SR pedals.
Respectfully,
Tom Dalton
Bethlehem, PA
Jerome & Elizabeth Moos wrote: Or it could be that earlier SL pedals were better finished than later ones. Like Peter, I believe the only difference was the axles. Though he didn't mention it, I think he meant to imply as part of the different axles that the bearing size and therefore the bearing cups were different also. A while back I got a pretty trashed set of SR pedals. I would have saved the axles and installed them in SL bodies, but changing bearing cups is a very difficult job, so I sent the pedals back to the seller for a refund.
Regards,
Jerry Moos Houston, TX
Tom Dalton wrote: ...and yet here we have a photograph of a set of SR pedals with a far better finish than any SLs I've ever noticed. Did you look at the picture? These pedal bodies look almost like Record hub shells. The moulding lines, or parting lines, or whatever, have been completely ground/polished off, which I've never seen and a set of SLs. Now, maybe it's a NOS set of SR pedals that were refinished by the owner, but that doesn't seem like the most probable explanation. It is more likely that either 1) at least some SR pedals received special attention during some period of production, or 2) that at some point in time all SR and SL pedals enjoyed a better standard of finish than what we normally see . Perhaps there are just a few sets out there that were hand finished by some obsessive Campy employee who was quickly fired for wasting time. We may never know, but given that one CR listmemeber who is ESPECIALLY familliar with SR gear has said that the SR pedals are better finished, and given that I never believed it until I noticed this set, I thought this image was listworthy.
For what it is worth, my money is on 1). I suspect that the early SR pedal bodies were hand finished to distinguish them from standard SL that were just put through the tumbler, or whatever. After a while, Campy moved away from this extra step as a cost saving measure. Thus, there are also (later) SR pedals, like yours, with exactly the same appearance as typical SLs. This pattern would not be without parallels in other Campy production. The early Cobalto brakes were based on SR just as SR pedals were based on SL. The early Cobalto brakes received an extra dose of hand finishing, just like some early SRs did (in my theory). The later Cobaltos were exactly like SR, no extra buffing, just as some SRs are just like SLs. Just a theory, but the early, light-blue box supports the notion that the Ebay pedals are early production.... Not proof, but a step in the right direction.
Tom Dalton
Bethlehem, PA
Jon White
wrote:
Tom Dalton wrote:
> I've heard tell that the SR pedal bodies were not exactly the same as SL*, but were actually better finished. Perhaps this was only true during certain periods, but these sweet pedals lend some credence to the tales.
>
>
No. They were identical on the outside except for the titanium axles. The finishing was the same.
I still have a pair.
-- Peter Jon White Peter White Cycles 24 Hall Rd. Hillsborough, NH 03244 603 478 0900 Phone 603 478 0902 Phax http://www.PeterWhiteCycles.com
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