Re: [CR] Campagnolo Super Record bb question

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From: <gpvb1@comcast.net>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: Re: [CR] Campagnolo Super Record bb question
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 21:23:45 +0000


Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 13:30:31 -0500 From: John Thompson <JohnThompson@new.rr.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR] Campagnolo Super Record bb question

Jerome & Elizabeth Moos wrote:
> I have another question on this. Why did Campy switch to a nutted
> design with the second version of the SR BB axle? Chuck's Campy
> Timeline indicates that the second version also switched to a solid
> rather than hollow axle. Did the hollow ones break?

I'm not an engineer, but I don't think you gain a great deal of strength by going from a hollow axle to a solid one. For the type of loads a BB carries, I think spindle diameter would be more important than whether or not it is hollow,
> (Seems I've heard it said they did.) If so, the switch to solid makes sense,

Campy had breakage problems with a lot of the Ti Super Record pieces (except the derailleur bolts, AFAIK). The pedal axles were particularly notorious for this. The Super Record "Pro" group (same as SR except steel BB, pedal, and hub axles) seemed more popular for this reason.
> what advantage did they see in a nutted axle? Most other nutted
> axles at the time were on lower end stuff like Sugino Maxy.

I suspect the nutted axles were easier to manufacture; that's why they are used on low-end stuff. Titanium, at least in those days, was famous for being difficult to work with and Campy may have decided the hollow axle was just more bother than it was worth.

-- John (john@os2.dhs.org) Appleton WI USA ------------------------------

A few thoughts: Charles, all of the Super Record road BBs used the same cups and (14) 3/16" balls per side (unlike NR/GS/most others, with (11) 1/4" balls per side), so the answer to your question is yes, you should be able to interchange SR spindles of a given type, no problem. One issue, though, is that there are aluminum Campagnolo BB cups out there that were used for early '90s Record, which had (14) 7/32" balls per side. I'm not sure if the cups are any different (I hope not, since without a micrometer, it would be hard to tell the difference if they are...). Does anyone know for sure? John and Jerry: the solid, nut-type Ti SR BB spindle was introduced because of breakage reports of the early, hollow spindle. Without doing a re-design of the entire BB, it was probably the best way to get more meat into the spindle. Since the spindle was made by one supplier (OMAS) and the cups perhaps by another, they only changed the one part, likely for cost and complexity reasons. Besides, the spindle was changing anyways, due to the 1977 CPSC-driven changes, so making it solid cost very little additional Lire at the time, if any.... Probably the most famous broken early SR BB spindle was Laurent Fignon's in a TdF stage - there is a famous photo of him, looking quite dejected, sitting on the road, with his left crank arm/pedal/clip/strap lying in the gutter near him. Ouch! I've never heard of any other titanium Super Record part breaking from simple fatigue (crash damage doesn't count...). There aren't really that many (BB spindles, pedal spindles, pivot bolts for rear der. - that's it. Hub axles don't count IMO - ever see one?). The "Super Pro" groups were popular because the SR BB and pedals were very expensive, and only a bit lighter than NR and Record SL, respectively. For a lot of money, you could save about 75 grams of weight per item (a pair of pedals, or a complete BB). I've never seen, or heard directly of a broken Ti pedal spindle, for example. Has anyone personally experienced one, or physically seen a broken one? I'm somewhat leery of standing on an early SR Ti BB spindle, but I have no hesitation to use SR and 50th Anniversary pedals, which both use the titanium spindles. Your actual mileage may vary, of course, so don't use anything that you think is unsafe. Regards, Greg "nerd Engineer" Parker Ann Arbor, Michigan