Re: [CR]Peugeot PY10 vs. Raleigh Team Pro - was: Torelli/Chairman Bill...

Example: Framebuilders:Masi
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 05:16:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jerome & Elizabeth Moos" <>
Subject: Re: [CR]Peugeot PY10 vs. Raleigh Team Pro - was: Torelli/Chairman Bill...
To: "Feeken, Dirk" <>,
In-Reply-To: <>

Well, I disagree, but since you have both bikes, I respect your opinion. My problem with Chairman Bill's posting was that he quite evidently had not ridden the PY-10 or the equipment on it. I don't have the exact bikes, but I do have a slightly different PY-10 of the era (without the brazeon brake pivots of Thevenet's team bike, plus other variations) and also a 1975 Raleigh Pro, although an MkIV, not a Team Pro. Both are great bikes, but I couldn't say one is better than the other. And I certainly wouldn't say the Peugeot "is not of the same quality" and the more insulting things Chairman Bill says about the Peugeot. Nothing wrong with healthy disagreements, I just wish people would base their opinions on actual experience, as you do.


Jerry Moos Houston, TX

"Feeken, Dirk" <> wrote:

Jerry, I disagree. I have both bikes in question right now in my stash: A 1976 Peugeot PY-10 "Peugeot Prestige" like Thevenet's and a Raleigh Team Pro of the same year (which I hope/assume based on the serial number and the opinion of a former TI team rider has been build by Jan Legrand) The Peugeot is defenitely not of the same class regarding workmanship. While there are nicely filed lugs at the Raleigh, the Peugeot has seems to have gotten no treatment at all after brazing. And the Maillard 700 hubs and pedals (I opened them) have not the same shiny bearing surfaces the campagnolo stuff had.


-- Dirk Feeken Heidelberg Germany

-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: [CR]Torelli/Chairman Bill on French vs Italian, stirring that pot

Yes, Chairman Bill does sell almost entirely Italian stuff. And his comments about Thevenet's bikes are absolute BS. If you read the wording carefully, it is fairly obvious that Chairman Bill had not himself ridden the French components he so blithely badmouths. I have riddem each and every component he mentions, but French and Campy, and I can assure you he doesn't know what the hell he is talking about.


Jerry Moos Houston, TX

Thomas Adams wrote:

On my searches for TDF coverage, the Torelli site often has some great stuff. Chairman Bill has posted some thumbnail histories of TDF's past. Excerpted below is his assessment of 1977 equipment. The web address is:

Please remember that Bill imports Italian bikes almost exclusively. The only French part he likes is the SLJ rear mech. Let the disagreements begin!

{Please note that none of these opinions are mine, I completely agree with you (whoever you are) that your favorite rider/brand/bicycle/country/grouppo is the greatest ever, and I can't wait to find another NOS bike just like your favorite to make my collection complete.}

Tom "weekend duffer" Adams, Shrewsbury NJ

"This would probably be a good time to stop and look at the bikes of the era. I had the good fortune to get a Team Raliegh bike built in the shop of the head Raleigh mechanic, Jan Legrand. I think it is indicative of the bikes of the time. I am going on memory here, so please forgive any errors.

The frame was Reynolds 531. The bike, being Dutch, was heavier than the normal 21-pound racing bike of the era. It was lugged with a 25mm diameter top tube and a 28mm downtube. Tubing of that time for most uses was drawn to 0.6mm thickness in the center of the tubes and 0.9 at the butts. I assume my bike had slightly thicker tubing. The frame was fitted with short Campagnolo horizontal adjustable dropouts. It had no chrome.

The groupset was Campagnolo Super Record.

The wheels were 32 spoke laced on to Martano rims. I think the tires it came with were Clement Strada 66 cold treated tubulars.

Thevenet's bikes were not of the same class. The Peugeot team that he rode for were issued stock Peugeot bikes. The frames were of 531 like the Raleighs, but the workmanship was rather inferior. Merckx, who rode for Peugeot early in his career, said that the Peugeot bikes rode and handled like dogs. Instead of crisp Campagnolo side-pulls, Mafac centerpull brakes that had been updated slightly from the 1960s were used.

The Simplex Super LJ derailleur set was certainly up to the standards of the time, perhaps even slightly superior in their shifting to the Campangolo. The hubs, Maillard, were not that well made. Their axles broke far more often than was proper.

The crankset, Stronglight, was pretty and shiny. But ask anyone who rode one in competition and you would learn that the spider was very flexible. It was very easy to make the chain rub against the derailleur under heavy effort. The Maillard pedals were also inferior. They had poor bearings and broke axles regularly.

And with that machine, one that any weekend duffer today would shun with horror, Thevenet won two Tours de France. It's the legs."

Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page