RE: [CR]Soft frames? Hard Frames?

(Example: Component Manufacturers:Ideale)

From: "Ken Freeeman" <freesound@comcast.net>
To: <hersefan@comcast.net>, <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: RE: [CR]Soft frames? Hard Frames?
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 19:47:41 -0400
In-Reply-To: <080320052220.9391.42F14323000045F1000024AF2206999735020E000A9C9D0A08@comcast.net>
thread-index: AcWYeYwqDpozqTT8Q92sNkAIE5RT0QACy2ew
cc: 'Chuck Schmidt' <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net>

Dear Mike and other soft frame fans,

Steel frames should not be expected to work harden unless they are repeatedly flexed (or stressed) nearly beyond the elastic range of the materials they are built from. The flex cycle life is extremely long if the metal is all kept in its elastic zone, and essentially no fatigue should be expected. At least this is what my ol' Strength of Materials prof taught!

I'm glad you think it's hogwash. And if metallurgical knowledge is applied, it isn't logical. I would challenge the assumption that "frames work harden." If they did, there might be something here.

I'll duck now and weather the flames...

Ken Freeman Ann Arbor, MI

-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of hersefan@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 6:20 PM To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Cc: Chuck Schmidt Subject: Re: [CR]Soft frames? Hard Frames?

If anything, as engineering friends have explained to me, frames work harden and in theory that would make them stiffer and at the same time closer to a failure.

I am a proponent of the view that frames which are too stiff are easily confused with frames that are "too soft".

According to this logic, it is possible that there is something which happens to frames as they get more miles under them.

Despite this now logical explanation which accords with theory, I think its hogwash. I've ridden lots of frames with lots of miles, and I sure can't find anything resembling evidence that ride changes with miles.

What I do know is that riders perceptions of ride does change. Ride a different bike for awhile and come back to your old bike - it often feels different since your timing has changed.

Its not the bike that changes - its the rider. I'm sticking with it despite my explaination for the myth. But since I'm an economist I can explain many things with numbers and logic. Doesn't make it right.

Mike Kone in Boulder CO


-------------- Original message --------------


> j.mccoin@comcast.net wrote:
> >
> > I have seen people test the stiffness of frames for years by putting
> > one foot
> on a pedal in the 12 O'Clock position and pushing on it. I have tried
> to explain that all they are seeing is how much air is in their tires.
> >
> > There are still a lot myths and foolishness in our hobby, I think
> > the one
> about frames going soft is one of the silliest, Chucks description a
> few years ago, of a pile of discarded Merckx's frames rusting away in
> a field because they had gone soft, was quite a parody of this foolishness.
> >
> > Jim McCoin
> > Fremont Ca.
>
>
> ======================================================================
> == Ah yessss... I remember a trip to sunny Italy in the seventies and
> a highly anticipated visit to Molteni Arcore. Out behind the warehouse
> that housed the team bike spares, etc. (you should have seen the
> shelves of wool jerseys with one entire shelf of Molteni jerseys with
> the worlds bands on the collar and sleeves reserved for Eddy
> himself)... anyway out behind the warehouse was this field of waist
> high weeds, and in the middle of this field was a big soggy mound of
> all these orange painted bike frames, the steel tubes of which were
> reduced to so much limp pasta by the herculean efforts of Eddy and his
> domestics in the previous season's races.
>
> Chuck "huh?" Schmidt
> SoPas, SoCal
> ======================================================================
> ==
>
> "...fishing the past, from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over
> the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth."
> --Kurt Vonnegut
>
> Chuck Schmidt
> South Pasadena, Southern California

>

> .