Pardon my ignorance. But what is magic about 1983? My Chas Roberts was built in 1988 but is lugged Columbus , 126 mm spacing, friction down tube shifters. Is Campagnolo C-record too modern?
Rob Dayton Charlotte, NC USA
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Jon3084@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:33 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: What does it really mean. Re: [CR]KOF Tally
Whoaaaaa Brandon, the big move got you stressed?
Check out Dale's words
"The Classic Rendezvous list focusses on bicycles made from the beginning of
the Twentieth Century, up to 1983. We also consider "on topic" makers of very fine bicycles that can be seen as "Keepers of the Flame" for classic style cycling.... New age welded, injection molded, or glued modern bicycles belong in some other mail list, not this one! Ditto for mountain bikes & balloon tired
bikes. Those items have merit, but they just do not belong here."
If a Hampsten frame is built in Steve Hampstens garage by Martin Tweedy is he a builder? Check the Archives for your answer as all the opinions are there.
If you build bikes as cool as the Lugged Ti cycle with the polished stainless machined twin plate fork crown I read about you'll do fine as Ivy cycles.
Don't take all this so serious, maybe there are some clues in it for you as a builder if you'll open your eyes a bit.
Jonathan Greene Oviedo FL
In a message dated 8/10/2005 10:16:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, brandon@ivycycles.com writes: How exactly is Ti Cycles a KOF? I like Dave and all, but he and the lads build a large majority tig welded titanium frames. Or Pegoretti for that matter? Does one lugged frame in a line-up make it KOF. If so is De Rosa even though they make the King along with the Primato? And Hampsten too. . . do they even build any of their own frames, or are they contract built by someone else?
This leads me to something I've been meaning to say for a long time. KOF is a bunch of hooey. If you really wanted a KOF frame you would use brass only and standard tube diameters for starters. Lugs do not a "classic" bike make folks. Heck I build what most folks call KOF frames and would love the business that having Keeper Of The Flame attached to my frames would bring, but instead my motto is "Modern Frames, Traditional Techniques" I'll have none of this KOF bull puckey. If the list really is about bikes built before 1984 lets keep the bikes within that time line.
Ok, so if people insist on using this silly title KOF for builders today lets set some base rules. Try these on for size: 1. Lugs do not make it KOF. There were many other joining methods back in the day. 2. Steel doesn't make it KOF. We've already decided that early Kleins, Teledyles, Grafteks, ETC are list worthy. 3. The old builders didn't use oversized tubes, except in rare cases like with some of the French bikes and tandems. 4. Files were used for mitering tubes. The small bike builders of yore didn't use huge mills or much serious tooling for doing their miters or building. 5. blah, blah, blah. . . I could go on but really think people who out there really builds bikes the way they did in the old days. I know a few, but only a few that still build that way.
The frames people revere from the past are quite different from the frames made today and that should be what makes them special. There are many builders building today, but they're not building the same way or the same frames and that to should be OK too. I think we should get back to what this list is about classic lightweight bicycles built before 1984. If you want to talk about cool lugged steel frames built after 1984 that should be a separate list.
Thanks for letting me rant,
Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
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"Sine coffea nihil sum."
--Sarah Vowell--
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