Dear Norris and others,
The point you raise is a valid one and there are a few angles to this.
1) Many fine British and other frames are undervalued. 2) Many folks can't identify or simply don't care what good workmanship is.
Now, why is Herse so sought after, even a non-touring type machine?
A) Most Herse frames are actually extrememly well made. The 50's bikes are the best, but most others are very well done. B) There is something fun about Herse because there were so many varieties. One can try to collect "the catalog" (kind of a misnomer because few true catalog bikes exist - most are a hybrid of features from various models) C) While Herse was known as a touring style builder, a number of race frames came from Herse as well. As I understand it, Alcyon used bikes built by Herse at some point. Oh, then there is Lily Herse, the best female racer in France in her day. Herse built his daughters bikes, so there was certainly some race bike experience. D) Affordability - an Herse such as the one on Ebay is going to fetch far less money that a fully equipped touring machine. Someone can gain entry into the Herse world for far less money than a fully equipped machine would cost. E) Because Herse made so many varieties, someone collecting them all would eventually need this one.
And with all these arguments I can make for the Herse's value, the point Norris makes remains valid. Taken on face value of build quality why are so many other wonderfully built frames undervalued? The real reason is us. So many of us want the name we've heard of or what we are familiar with. I've had folks visit my collection and look at a wonderful early French machine with paradigm changing features - they glance at it for 10 seconds and then become transifixed by an NOS Raleigh Pro sitting next to it. Urrggghh.
Mike Kone in Boulder CO
> Yes..I know I have a particular hang-up about this "constructeur's"
\r?\n> frames...but certainly not about their design or the quality of their
\r?\n> build.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> It's just that...Well..why are folks willing to pay so much money for
\r?\n> them? I'd buils a couple of new ones, cast lugs and all, for that sort
\r?\n> of money.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Take the latest example on Ebay - item No 7178117200, a fairly standard
\r?\n> pleasant road frame, not a dressed-up randonneuse or anything tricky or
\r?\n> exotic or difficult to build. It is currently standing, with just over a
\r?\n> day to go..at over $1600. Hey...and that's just for a frame that really
\r?\n> needs a respray.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Compare that with the Baines Whirlwind bike that is going through Ebay.
\r?\n> For the same amount of money you get a rare design, cast lugs, probably
\r?\n> a high standard of craftsmanship in the build quality; Baines' in my
\r?\n> experience not being known to deteriorate badly, or break, a superb
\r?\n> spray-job...and all the kit to ride it away on. Just ask yourself
\r?\n> what..if it existed a Herse "Gate" might cost?
\r?\n>
\r?\n> This is an appeal for help...Really! Can anyone explain how these prices
\r?\n> are justified..OK market forces etc etc..But I have a score or so of
\r?\n> frames very similar to this Herse, all with cast lugs, nice seat-stay
\r?\n> top-eyes, all with impeccably mitred tubes within the bottom-bracket
\r?\n> shell...all by skilled, but generally unknown builders ie no
\r?\n> head-badges, decals etc...and all French.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> There must be someone out there can explain this phenomenon..my
\r?\n> inability to understand isn't all down to my senility.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Norris Lockley..Settle Uk..trying to sort the wood from the trees..so to
\r?\n> speak